Matt Gallant is a serial entrepreneur who has collected over seven million leads in various industries. He has scientifically tested well over 10,000 different marketing ideas, generated tens of millions of dollars online and built his dream international lifestyle.
He’s known by his peers as “the mad marketing scientist.” Matt’s constantly testing new radical ideas inside his companies. He’s a serial entrepreneur, a life optimizer and a practical spirituality student. He has rewired his brain into hyper-functioning by actively exploring his trauma experiences.
In this episode, we’ll be discussing the darkest time of Matt’s personal and professional life. We discuss the single most valuable skill he has learned to create absolute freedom in his life. And Matt shares his interpretation of failure and how he’s totally transformed his mindset around it.
Key Points From This Episode:
- Being market-centered instead of self-centered.
- Matt’s first real entrepreneurial gig with College Pro Painters.
- How MMA events taught Matt the art of hustle.
- The darkest moment in Matt’s marketing journey.
- Trusting that you’ve got what it takes to make it.
- The value of structured experimentation.
- Why we need to put knowledge into action.
- Balancing the visionary and the integrator.
- How Matt overcame his social and spiritual bottom.
- Are entrepreneurs more prone to addictive habits?
- Why we need to be aware of our character defects.
- Karma doesn’t always have to be a bitch.
- Cleaning house: Matt’s spiritual awakening.
- The power of neuro feedback and forgiveness.
- Four things that create trauma, acknowledging and reversing it.
- Why great data shapes destinies.
- Does failing just mean stopping?
- Overcoming fear: Three challenges you can start today.
- And much more!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Unbound Merino – http://unboundmerino.com
Matt Gallant – http://mattgallant.tv/
Bio Optimizers – https://bioptimizers.com/
Dawson Church – https://dawsonchurch.com/
Infinite Profit Solutions – http://www.infiniteprofitsolutions.com/
Power vs Force by David Hawkins – https://www.amazon.com/Power-Force-David-Hawkins-Ph-D/dp/1401945074
Letting Go by David Hawkins – https://www.amazon.com/Letting-David-Hawkins-M-D-Ph-D/dp/1401945015
Matt Gallant on Hacking Your Brain– http://mattgallant.tv/hacking-brain-5-days/
“MG: Even when things don’t work, right? Again, I just locate it as data and I’m a very data driven person because I really feel that great data shapes destinies.”
[0:00:14.7] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Fail on Podcast where we explore the hardships and obstacles today’s industry leaders face on their journey to the top of their fields, through careful insight and thoughtful conversation. By embracing failure, we’ll show you how to build momentum without being consumed by the result.
Now please welcome your host, Rob Nunnery.
[0:00:39.7] RN: Hey there and welcome to the show that believes that failing in a hyper focused way is the fastest way to quit a job, start a business and live a life of absolute freedom in a world that only shares successes, we dissect the struggle by talking to honest and vulnerable entrepreneurs and this is a platform for their stories.
Today’s story is of Matt Gallant. Matt is a serial entrepreneur who has collected over seven million leads in various industries, scientifically tested, well over 10,000 different marketing ideas and generated tens of millions of dollars online and built his dream international lifestyle.
He made his first sale in internet in 1996, and since then has built over 39 profitable websites in various sectors in industries selling eight figures worth of products and services online. He’s been called by his peers “the mad marketing scientist” since he’s constantly testing new radical ideas inside his companies.
He’s a serial entrepreneur, a life optimizer and a practical spirituality student. We’ll be discussing the darkest time of Matt’s personal and professional life, you definitely don’t want to miss this. The single most valuable skill he has learned to create absolute freedom in his life and how Matt interprets failure and has totally transformed his mindset around it.
First, I’ve got a lot of travel I just completed and I’m actually heading to New York on Wednesday and luckily, all I need to travel with is a backpack for one reason only, it’s a shirt from an innovative Toronto apparel company called Unbound Marino. They have clothes made out of marino wool that you can wear for months on end without ever needing to have it washed.
You should wash it but you don’t have to. It’s a traveler’s absolute dream, check it out at the show notes page for an exclusive Fail On discount that you won’t get anywhere else and if you’d like to stay up to date on all the Fail On Podcast interviews and key takeaways form each guest, simply go to failon.com and sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of the page. That’s failon.com
[0:02:50.3] RN: Let’s go back to really the first time somebody give you money in exchange for a product or service that you created?
[0:02:57.0] MG: My first product was a service, guitar lessons. I was 16 years old, started playing guitar when I was 12 and really got into Metallica playing every day and it got to the point where I could play most of the solos from Injustice For All. Then I did a show at the school and you know, a lot of people were impressed so then some people started asking me to give them guitar lessons. That was my first ever product.
[0:03:21.7] RN: Did you want to be a rock star?
[0:03:23.5] MG: Yeah.
[0:03:23.8] RN: That was the idea?
[0:03:24.5] MG: I wanted to be James Hatfield badly, desperately. Yeah, that was the dream for a while and did the rock band thing, recorded a CD and that was fun. And then online, my first sale ever, I was 19, my first year in university and I was on a news net board and I just sold the training program. I think the guy sent me 50 bucks and I sent him a training program, that was my first online sale which was 20 years ago.
[0:03:51.2] RN: What was the training program or was that your whole plan to put this training program together then sell it online?
[0:03:56.4] MG: No, it was just kind of organic, you know, it was news net board and I was just sharing about training and then the guy messaged me.
[0:04:04.3] RN: You're saying news net, news net is.
[0:04:06.6] MG: This is before forums.
[0:04:07.6] RN: Exactly. But it’s a same idea as a forum.
[0:04:10.0] MG: Yeah, it was kind of the original news board, bold and board forums.
[0:04:15.5] RN: Got it. You posted there, he saw it and –
[0:04:19.7] MG: Yeah, just organic sale. I didn’t kind of run with it but it definitely gave me a strong dopamine hit and I was like “Okay, this is cool.”
[0:04:27.0] RN: You’re like “Wow, why is this dude sending me 50 bucks. I don’t know this guy, he never seen me before.” It had to be a bit of a mindset shift.
[0:04:35.5] MG: Yeah, it was a mindblower.
[0:04:36.5] RN: Yeah, once you’ve got that you’re like, like you said, it’s like a little dopamine hit, in your mind you’re like, “I got to do this more, I got to get this out there.” What was your thought?
[0:04:45.8] MG: Yeah, then my next big marketing experiment was at national inquirer because my aunt had this huge stack and I’d see these weight loss ads, you know? I’m like, “Let’s run a weight loss ad in there” and so we ran a little classified ad. I think we spent like 150 bucks and we got 130 calls.
People would leave their address, it was a logistical nightmare. Way before the internet. I had no copywriting training but I whipped together like a four page sales letter for a book that had I had never even created before but I’m like “To hell with it, we’re going to sell it. If it sells, I’ll create the program.” I got one sale and the check bounced.
But it was a great experiment, kind of fits to the whole topic of your podcast which is the fail on. To me, it’s just data, it’s just experiences. All of those things lead to bigger wins.
[0:05:42.9] RN: That was a cool little experiment because you had enough knowledge to know, you didn’t have to create the product before seeing if there was a market, right? You knew, let’s do a little test, see what kind of data we get back before we actually spend hours and money building the product.
[0:05:59.6] MG: Yeah, exactly. I think for a lot of people listening. If your coach or if your thought leader, one of the best strategies which a lot of guys have done is to sell the program and then create it as you go.
[0:06:13.4] RN: Based on feedback, right?
[0:06:14.8] MG: Yeah. I know one guy, he created this deep, epic program and had no sales. That’s tough.
[0:06:24.2] RN: Which is super common, right? Because I think most people, I think it’s changing. People are getting smarter about how to start a business, how to create products without putting the cart before the horse but I think it’s super common for people still to have this huge idea, not validate it, put the product out there and then it just you know, goes to the product graveyard.
[0:06:42.1] MG: Absolutely. I think one of the big shift people need to make and it’s a tough one is to be market centered instead of self-centered. That’s really tough because at the end of the day, we all want to do stuff that we’re excited about.
We all want to do things that fit our biases but the challenges, sometimes the market doesn’t care about what we love, right? The more we can get back into the mindset of the people we’re trying to serve. Especially if you become really advanced in what you do and something sometimes I struggle with in certain markets. You forget what it was like and you’re completely disconnected from the beginners and a lot of times that’s where the money is.
[0:07:24.9] RN: Yeah, it’s so true. Just to continue the journey. You sold that first product and you’re like, okay, there’s something to this. What was your journey from there?
[0:07:35.5] MG: Well, I didn’t really go deep down that rabbit hole at that time. The next big journey was College Pro Painters. I saw this ad “Make $10,000 a summer.” That sounds good. I applied and to this day, it was the toughest interview process I’ve ever done, it was very intense and got the gig and to this day, was probably the toughest entrepreneurial test by fire that I’ve done.
[0:08:05.5] RN: For those that don’t know, what is college pro painters?
[0:08:09.7] MG: Well College Pro Painters is owned by a company that has mastered the franchising process and College Pro Painters is a franchise that they’ve built, every year they recruit new university students, they train them on how to build a painting company. The marketing side, the hiring side, how to paint, how to do estimates, the whole nine yards.
Literally, within months, you’re going to take people from zero to a functional painting entrepreneur.
[0:08:41.5] RN: What you’re applying for was to actually have your own painting franchise essentially?
[0:08:46.2] MG: Correct.
[0:08:46.7] RN: Okay, got it.
[0:08:49.1] MG: That was my first real entrepreneurial experience.
[0:08:53.0] RN: Yeah, toughest part about that was what?
[0:08:55.5] MG: There was a lot of things, first, it was February and we had to go on the streets in Canada. Actually knock on doors and say, “Would you like a free estimate to paint your house next summer?”
It’s dark, it’s literally minus 20, minus 30 Celsius and you know, you’re getting rejected. I mean, you’re getting like one lead an hour, right? That was just tough on all levels and just facing the fear of cold calling, right?
[0:09:27.2] RN: Knocking on doors.
[0:09:27.7] MG: Knocking on doors, people I don’t know and there was a lot of fear because I’m selling a product that I’ve literally never delivered. There’s always a part of my, in my thinking saying, “You know, what if I screw this beautiful house up?”
That was a legitimate fear because I’ve never painted before. Then…
[0:09:49.9] RN: Were you comfortable by the way just going into these cold calls or is that something you had never done before? Go to strangers, trying to sell something that you had.
[0:09:57.1] MG: Never done. Yeah. That was again the training.
[0:09:59.5] RN: Super –
[0:10:00.7] MG: By fire. Yeah. Lot of fear facing there and – but then, the bigger fear was actually doing the estimate, right? Every weekend at lineup, two, three estimates and we had marketing mechanisms too, we had flyers, we had telemarketers. I mean, again, they were very sophisticated company.
Every weekend and have three or five estimates lined up and I had zero sales in my first 10 estimates. It was 21 franchisees in the Maritimes in eastern Canada, I was the only guy without a sale.
I remember, I was on my 11th estimate and I remember the moment, I remember where I was and I remember being outside, it was cold, it was Saturday afternoon. I’m looking at the house and the doubt really hit. It was multiple layers of doubt, first of all, it was, you know, not just can I paint this house but can I even do this?
I haven’t made a sale yet. Really had to dig in and summon up some warrior spirit and say, “Fuck it, let’s go for it.” Then I got that first sale and that gave me the confidence boost and the momentum to keep going and then you know, by the end of the year, of that year, I closed 33% of all the jobs that I pitched. One of the most improved manager of the year and then second year, won that again, it was up to 50%.
[0:11:27.0] RN: Those first 11 estimates, was there a time where you thought about like “Dude, this is not my business, I can’t do it.”
[0:11:33.6] MG: Well, I was definitely thinking that on the 11th estimate.
[0:11:37.0] RN: This is it for you. I had to get this or you might not have kept going?
[0:11:41.5] MG: Yeah, it was a real – the doubt was at level 10 right there.
[0:11:45.7] RN: Got it. That’s literally where it always happens, right? You're so close to a breakthrough and that’s where a lot of people decide to quit. Obviously you didn’t quit, got most improved, awards, you did well. From there, how far did you take that business?
[0:12:05.8] MG: Two years was as much as I could take. I hated the business itself. Yeah, that was enough for me. Then, my next real big business experience was organizing hand to hand combat, self-defense, MMA events.
I really got passionate about that. I actually bought a product that John Carlton wrote The Sales Letter for. I didn’t know anything about copywriting back then, didn’t know it was John but it worked. There was a nickel attached and it talked about how this guy was in a warehouse with some neo Nazi skinheads in the warehouse, your life wasn’t worth the nickel that was pasted on the letter.
You beat the shit out of two of them, the third guy ran. Just bought the DVD’s and it was like, “Okay, this is the real deal, this is what I was looking for.” Started training the stuff, got really obsessed and contacted him and said “Hey man, I want to train with you.”
He said “Well, you can come to Tulsa Oklahoma.” And I did the math, I’m like, “Well, the flight alone is 2,500 bucks to fly there.” Or, I can bring him to Moncton Canada, start organizing some events and even if I break even, it’s a lot cheaper.
Started doing that and I really learned the art of hustle because you know, it was just one of those things where I’m pitching to all my friends and then was just trying to get people there.
[0:13:29.7] RN: This old school marketing, right?
[0:13:31.3] MG: Old school guerilla marketing, wrote some sales letters, again with no training but wrote some sales letters.
[0:13:36.5] RN: Did you know that sales letter was like at that time? Did you know the actual, that it was an actual thing that people trained to do?
[0:13:44.1] MG: No, but I had seen enough of them and I knew on some level intuitively that they worked. I didn’t know that there was such a thing called copywriting. But it was doing it. You know, I was doing copywriting without knowing that it was copywriting and you know.
I did that for about five, six years and as I connected with them, he was one of the best sellers for that company called TRS Direct. That kind of clued me into the bigger universe. Then I started training copywriting a couple of years, to three years after training with them.
[0:14:18.5] RN: Got it.
[0:14:20.0] MG: That was some of those early entrepreneurial experiences.
[0:14:23.0] RN: Yeah, when did you first jump in online fully?
[0:14:27.4] MG: Online fully was, I trained with him and then one of my first real successes was, we filmed the product with him, it was called anti-grappling. It was how to fight grapplers. That sold five figures which was –
[0:14:45.1] RN: Video course or what?
[0:14:46.2] MG: Yeah with DVD’s.
[0:14:46.4] RN: Okay.
[0:14:47.6] MG: We filmed it, I actually edited out. I bought my first mac, spent 40 hours editing the thing, this was probably 17 years ago, 16, 17 years ago. Yeah, we sold five figures worth of the products. You know, all those wins help build belief and build momentum and I think momentum is one of the biggest key to success.
You know, you can’t succeed without momentum. The art of building it, maintaining it is something that I learned and we sold that and then I had a – I was doing personal training too, that was my main gig.
[0:15:23.9] RN: How did you sell those DVD’s by the way?
[0:15:26.4] MG: Wrote a sales letter and he had kind of a little bit of an audience on his message board. We sold it that way. Yeah, we weren’t too sophisticated with traffic at that point. Then I was learning copywriting full time. I studied copywriting about three years before I went full time online.
Some of my mentors was John Carlton which back at – he just got started, I was there when he pitched his first ever thing. It was a crazy offer because it was unlimited critiques for a year for like, I think it was a grand, it was insane and I took full advantage of it. I was writing a sales letter almost every day, sending it to him.
[0:16:05.0] RN: He’s regretting that, right? Get this guy out of here.
[0:16:09.3] MG: Yeah, he was shredding me.
[0:16:10.7] RN: Was he?
[0:16:11.5] MG: He was shredding me but then…
[0:16:14.7] RN: Was that the most valuable part of, I mean, that’s crazy valuable to get critique on every sales letter you write every day.
[0:16:19.3] MG: It was and when that happened, as a personal trainer, one of my clients owned a – one of the largest private labeling skin care companies in America. She says, “I want to make a product for you, an anti-aging skin care serum.” She did it and that was a sales letter that I wrote and wrote and rewrote and finally John said, “It’s awesome.”
We launched it, it sold five figures the first month and then scaled and scaled, we were doing like 200%, 300% all around on ad words right out of the gate.
[0:16:54.6] RN: What year is this by the way?
[0:16:56.4] MG: Well, this is 15 years ago.
[0:16:59.4] RN: Okay, early 2000’s.
[0:17:01.2] MG: Yeah.
[0:17:02.7] RN: Got it, ad words is ripe for the picking then.
[0:17:04.8] MG: Yeah. That’s when you could totally bid on like 100,000 keywords and get five instant clicks.
[0:17:09.8] RN: Right.
[0:17:12.5] MG: Yeah, that was a big victory and that was really when I started, that was it after that. I retired from personal training probably six or 12 months after.
[0:17:21.0] RN: Just financially it was doing so well and you’re like, “Okay, there’s no – I can scale this, there’s no reason to do anything else?”
[0:17:26.2] MG: Yeah exactly. I started just building business after business online, did a natural body building –
[0:17:33.3] RN: Just based on your copywriting skills, right? Because you could copywrite.
[0:17:36.4] MG: And traffic. Yeah, I learned ad words early and it just fit my natural video gamer tendencies, as you know as well from being a traffic guy, it’s just kind of a game at a certain level. Yeah, it was just business after business for a few years.
[0:17:54.0] RN: Got it.
[0:17:55.0] MG: Yeah, that was it.
[0:17:57.5] RN: When you fully jumped in to the online world, obviously you didn’t – every sales letter you wrote didn’t just crush it, every campaign wasn’t profitable out of the gate. What were some of the biggest struggles when you went full time online? Did you have any catastrophic, just bust failures where you blew a lot of money?
[0:18:14.3] MG: Well, we got to rewind a little bit. The biggest, darkest moment was about a year or a year and a half before it popped. It was several bad events. First, I got scammed for about 7,500 bucks kind of on a stock trading thing. That wasn’t the end of the world but you know.
[0:18:39.1] RN: A course?
[0:18:39.5] MG: It was a course, it was just garbage and then the next thing that happened was I was in New York City and somebody broke into my first wife and I’s apartment. I had a safe of like 25 grand in cash and had like four or five grand video equipment and it was the jack to everything.
That hurt and then the most painful piece was I hired and I’m not going to name names out of respect but I hired a guy who was my idol at the time, in marketing. I went to see him and spent three days with them and you know, it was a fun experience and basically, long story short, he basically made me write the sales letter, change four words, literally four words.
Charged me 15 grand, we launched it and it wasn’t – he completely veered me off course to what I wanted to do. Because I wanted to get personal training and basics, write a sales letter to get more clients and it bombed, right?
That was my darkest moment because those three things happened relatively in a short span and just to see my hero, my idol, basically take advantage of me, screw me was definitely a painful moment.
The doubt was at level 10, also, it was another kind of level 10 at that moment. I called a copywriting friend of mine, Dan Galapu, Dopamine Dan and he said, “Dude, you got the skills man.” That’s when I went from looking outward for the keys to success to saying, “Fuck it, I’m just going to do it.”
If my hero just failed me, I can’t look outside myself so that’s when I just turned the corner and a few months later launched that letter that launched my career. That was again the darkest moment for sure in terms of just my marketing journey.
[0:20:43.4] RN: It’s a huge shift to – I have a pretty similar story in terms of going to somebody for copywriting, don’t need to mention their name but I dropped my partner and I dropped about 50k. As you know, copywriting can be insanely valuable or it can be just an absolute bust. Even from some of the “biggest” names out there.
[0:21:03.8] MG: Absolutely.
[0:21:05.0] RN: They can write a sales letter that bombs and in this case, that’s what happened. I don’t know if it’s all their fault though because we had a lot of stuff on our end that was – it could have been points of failure as well. But huge learning lesson as well for me is look inward, you know, not everybody has a magic bullet for you that will just make the product work.
Or make it sell. Thanks for sharing that, it’s an important lesson because people I feel like look for magic bullets all the time for what’s going to get them over that hump. When sometimes you just have to sit down and buckle up and do the work.
[0:21:41.9] MG: Yeah, it’s not just buckling up and doing the work obviously. That’s a huge part of it but it’s actually saying to yourself, “You know what? I’ve got what it takes. I don’t need another course, another coach, another program, I don’t need this guy, okay, you know what? I’ve done enough training, I’ve done enough learning, let me just take what I’ve got and put it out there.”
That’s the scariest thing because you know, you actually have – you’re pulling the lottery ticket out of your wallet and you're looking at if you’ve got the winning numbers or not. Because as long as the lottery ticket’s in the wallet, you can make yourself believe, “You know what? Maybe I’m a winner, right?”
As soon as you pull it out, you’re a winner or you’re a loser so that’s the scariest part about getting out there. But you just got to do it if you want to succeed. You know, you got to get the baby out.
[0:22:31.8] RN: On that note, obviously a lot of people listening probably want to start a business, maybe you’re in a job. How do you know when enough is enough? How do you know when you’ve consumed enough content or information or education to know, “Okay, now I can go test something or do something, do an experiment?”
[0:22:49.7] MG: I think you want to start doing experiments day one. I think the most powerful thing that I’ve ever done, the most valuable skill I’ve ever built is the skill of structured experimentation, optimization. Nothing’s made me more money than that. It’s not difficult.
[0:23:08.7] RN: Can you give me an example?
[0:23:10.0] MG: Sure, I mean, split testing is the rose example. For people that are listening, I don’t know, you take two ideas, maybe you got two different images of yourself or two different headlines for a sales letter and you just rotate them and the software tells you, “Hey, this one doubled your sales over this version.” That’s very typical.
That process is by far the most powerful thing anybody can do. Even just writing a blog post, that’s an experiment, right? Putting out a video, Facebook live video, doing a YouTube video, those are all experiments and what I’ve learned is that people that have a bias towards action instead of a bias towards overthinking, analyzing, worrying.
The people that are successful are just always action driven. At the end of the day, you want to start taking action as soon as you can. That’s always been I think one of my big key successes is just the level of integration. If I go to a workshop on Monday, not that I’m going to fully integrate and fully launch everything.
What can I put into action right away? You know, the speed of implementation is critical. Instead of thinking about “How much stuff can I learn,” it’s really about, “What percentage of what I’ve learned can I integrate and execute on?”
[0:24:41.5] RN: Yeah, I love it. Not that I listen to Tony Robbins all the time but I was listening to one of his online courses. Just on my phone while I go run, right? One thing that he does and pretty much every lesson he says, he’s like, “Stop here, go take action on this right now.”
[0:24:57.7] MG: Right.
[0:24:58.1] RN: Which is huge because I think most courses don’t do that, it’s just constant education without action and it’s really the idea of what Fail On is. You can’t fail if you’re, you can’t fail if you’re not trying. You can’t fail if you’re not taking action.
It’s just, go fail. Go take action, screw up, learn from it and then keep iterating until it works.
[0:25:18.2] MG: Yeah.
[0:25:19.5] RN: I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Just going along in the online journey, what are you working on today, are you still creating new products, creating new services?
[0:25:30.7] MG: Yeah. I’ll just share the companies that I’m a part of right now. I’ve got a couple that I’ve been around for over a decade, one is called Bio Optimizers and basically it’s healthy high performance, we’re focusing a lot on fixing digestion.
It’s a supplement company. It started off, it was information, focused on natural body builders and we just evolved and we are where we are now, so biooptimizers.com. You know, that’s always been one of my personal passions.
I love optimizing my own body hacking, all of that. Another one is Guitar Controls, that’s been around for over a decade. We’ve got over 70 different instructional products, teaching people how to play just about every instrument except the kazoo.
That’s fun. I’m also a musician and so again, I’m always about taking the things I’m passionate about and trying to monetize that. Then, I’m partners with Dawson Church, he’s an incredible human being and he does what’s called The Energy Psychology Certification and everything I’m passionate about.
I do the marketing for him then started mattgallant.tv about 18 months ago. That’s my biggest mistake I ever made was not doing that like 10, 15 years ago.
[0:26:44.6] RN: Yeah, right.
[0:26:45.2] MG: We can talk about that, had some fears there but conquered them and here I am. There’s no intent to monetize that but one thing that I do, do is pay for performance optimization deals where I take funnels that are already working. And through my abilities, my skillsets, my data, I make them work better, take a small cut of the increased net profit up to a certain point then I’m done.
That’s taking off and that’s a lot of fun. Then I have software startup called Infinite Profit Solutions where we’re building the ultimate tracking platform for media buying. You know media buying, there was nothing that could do what we wanted to do, we’ve been working on it for three years so that will be released soon. It’s called Gold Lantern, it’s really cool software.
[0:27:35.6] RN: Yeah, you have to share it with me once it comes out.
[0:27:37.7] MG: Yeah, I will. That sums up the gist of what’s going on.
[0:27:41.2] RN: Yeah, there’s a lot going on? What’s your day to day involvement, in these different companies and what are you mainly responsible for? Is it more advisory, is it –
[0:27:50.4] MG: Well, I’m co-owner in all of them and my role is the visionary. One book I highly recommend everybody listening to read. Because I figured this out on my own but it took me seven, eight years and it’s called Rocket Fuel and it describes these two fundamental roles in a business which is the visionary and the integrator.
When the visionary starts doing integrative work, it becomes a painful experience that begins to drain because visionaries are not good with details, they’re not good with the day to day, they’re more vision strategy, creative ideas, let’s just create new stuff.
The integrator is the opposite you know? Not necessarily going to look at the future, not the person you want to tap in to be creative, they like the details.
[0:28:40.0] RN: Systems, processes.
[0:28:40.7] MG: Exactly. Now, everything that I do, it’s about finding the right integrator, partnering up with them so that they do their thing and I do my thing. The reality is, as a visionary, as integrator, I can keep about five to 10 integrators busy with 10 to 20 hours a week and that’s with them having teams.
Just because like in an hour, let’s say I come up with five game plans. I mean, it can take 100 hours to fully execute, right? It’s just the nature.
[0:29:19.1] RN: Yeah.
[0:29:21.3] MG: That’s what I try to do, again, optimize, I love optimizing. That’s a little more hands on. I still am involved in the copywriting side. Now it’s more me, working with copywriters, bringing them in, giving them the idea, taking what they’ve done and editing it and working with it.
I don’t write as much.
[0:29:42.7] RN: But you look at the copy and shift things and switch angles and hooks.
[0:29:47.1] MG: Correct. Yeah. It’s also what I found, it’s really about finding the right copywriters for the right gigs because for every market, there’s a style and a voice that’s going to work well. I’ll give you an example.
We’re really focusing on digestion which the audience is a little older. A lot of it is women. The reality is, I just couldn’t get myself in the mind of a 60-year-old woman. I just couldn’t do it. What did I do? Well I hired a 65 year old copywriter and she crushed my control.
That’s what I’m doing as a strategy now is – because I think the ultimate edge is to be your market.
[0:30:33.9] RN: Yeah.
[0:30:34.5] MG: It’s very hard, I mean, maybe if you’re some incredibly –
[0:30:39.1] RN: Actor, right? You have to almost be like an actor.
[0:30:42.1] MG: Yeah.
[0:30:43.3] RN: Like a theater actor, you put yourself in somebody else’s shoes like to that extent, like a Johnny Depp you know? Who just plays really extreme roles.
[0:30:49.5] MG: Right.
[0:30:50.5] RN: That’s interesting. You’re looking for people that are already in that market. You found a 65 year old female copywriter that is talented?
[0:30:57.7] MG: Yeah.
[0:30:58.4] RN: Wow.
[0:31:01.9] MG: I got like 20 applications for that gig and when I saw hers, I’m like, “That’s the voice.”
[0:31:05.9] RN: So cool, yeah.
[0:31:08.6] MG: She beat my control. I love getting crushed by 65 year old copywriters.
[0:31:14.2] RN: That’s great. If you had to pinpoint somebody, who’s had the most profound impact on your life whether it be business, personal, doesn’t matter. Who do you say like, you wouldn’t be here today without that person?
[0:31:26.8] MG: Yeah, I got to go to David Hawkins and not to be confused with Richard Hawkins. David Hawkins wrote Power Versus Force, the eye of transcending levels of consciousness, letting go, you know. I was really a dedicated Agnostic for a long time for about 10 years. He got me off that road and got me back into spirituality which has been the most fruitful thing I’ve done as a human being. I got to go with David.
[0:31:55.9] RN: How has it shifted your life?
[0:31:57.9] MG: It shifted my life on every level. You know, again, I was a dedicated Agnostic, got divorced at 28, you know, went off the rails, right?
[0:32:07.2] RN: In terms of what? Drinking, drugs.
[0:32:09.1] MG: Drugs and alcohol.
[0:32:10.0] RN: Party.
[0:32:10.3] MG: Sex, I mean, all of that. I moved to Panama and that was just the –
[0:32:17.8] RN: Gasoline on the fire?
[0:32:19.0] MG: It was gasoline, napalm, kerosene, it was all the above and it was a lot of fun and finally you know, I just crashed and burned like four years after that. It was like a five-year crazy run. It was kind of building up before then but on some level the marriage kept it on yield.
Yeah, the wheels came undone and –
[0:32:43.1] RN: In what way? Sorry to dig into this one.
[0:32:45.1] MG: No, it’s all good man. Well, I was partying like six days a week, hard.
[0:32:51.2] RN: Was there a point where you like just couldn’t get out of bed one day or like, you said, the wheels came off. What’s that point where you’re like, “Dude, I can’t do this anymore.”
[0:32:59.3] MG: Well, here is the challenging, here is why I took longer than maybe some was, I was continuing to make money online because of the nature of the stuff. Money wasn’t the problem.
[0:33:08.9] RN: You could get away with it, right?
[0:33:10.3] MG: Yeah, I could get away with it. It wasn’t health issues because I had the health codes to repair myself, you know, I was using Japanese water technologies and enzymes and probiotics and blending super shakes.
Believe me, there was some crazy hangovers but I could get myself out quick so it wasn’t that – what it really was, was a social, emotional, spiritual bottom where first of all, social, it was completely unmanageable.
[0:33:39.6] RN: What do you mean?
[0:33:41.7] MG: My behavior, what I would say, you know, I’d be hurting the people around me, hurting friends.
[0:33:47.1] RN: Just being an asshole or like what?
[0:33:50.4] MG: Yeah, being an asshole, being out of control, there was no filters.
[0:33:56.2] RN: Somebody piss you off, they would know it immediately or was that the situation?
[0:33:59.3] MG: Well, fortunately I wasn’t too violent so there wasn’t that, yeah there wasn’t too many filters and completely out of control with women. That was really –
[0:34:11.4] RN: Just going through women? Just women?
[0:34:15.4] MG: Well yeah, it was a lot of that, yeah. But at the end of the day, it was just, you know, somebody sat me down, it was like five in the morning. I had done some stuff I wasn’t too proud of and she just revealed kind of who I had become.
The weight of it hit me. It was like the dam broke and I saw what I was in denial about for years and years and I couldn’t deny it anymore. That was the turning point.
[0:34:51.2] RN: Well what was it that you’re in denial about? Sorry I’m asking.
[0:34:53.3] MG: No, it’s good man. I was in denial about the fact that I was an alcoholic, I was a drug addict, I was out of control. My life was unmanageable. I was self-centered.
[0:35:05.4] RN: Was it hard for you to admit that you’re an alcoholic?
[0:35:07.7] MG: Yeah.
[0:35:07.7] RN: Because, I mean, in your eyes, you’re probably just partying, right? It’s not like – I see it.
[0:35:12.7] MG: Exactly. I could stop drinking and just switch to other things. You know, it wasn’t like I was drinking every day. But when I would drink –
[0:35:21.3] RN: It was to the extreme?
[0:35:22.8] MG: Yeah. It was always like that. It was like 20 years of denial really, if I look further back. That was the big turning point, you know, then I started a spiritual journey through that point. It’s been eight years.
[0:35:38.8] RN: Got it. Do you still drink?
[0:35:40.3] MG: No, eight years man.
[0:35:42.1] RN: Just sober, congrats man. I feel like with a lot of people, especially entrepreneurs for whatever reason. Very addictive personalities, very strong willed, I see it a lot, right? It’s just a normal thing where you do something, you go a hundred, you go in all the way. Go hundred miles per hour.
[0:36:01.7] MG: Yeah, I think our brains about 33% of the population of people who have brains that are predisposition to being addicts, alcoholics. Not that everybody becomes that but I think if you look at the brain of an entrepreneur.
We are definitely even way higher than that because you know, all the wiring that makes us entrepreneurs, also makes us prone to that. Not everybody develops that and becomes – it takes time, it takes some effort but for those of us that do, there are ways out.
Yeah, definitely entrepreneurs do not have a normal brain and I think also in today’s society, I mean, I grew up with video games right out of the gate. I think that also changes the wiring you know?
We’re so dopamine driven and you know, I don’t grow up with social media so I’m looking at the millennials, it’s another dimension of that.
[0:37:04.5] RN: Right.
[0:37:05.3] MG: I think that yeah, I think there’s going to be probably more addiction than ever. I mean, social media is probably the biggest addiction in the world right now.
[0:37:16.7] RN: Yeah.
[0:37:17.8] MG: Totally agree.
[0:37:18.4] RN: What’s that spiritual practice actually look like? Because obviously it’s done a world of good for you. I’d be really curious to see how it’s changed you and what it actually did.
[0:37:27.7] MG: Well yeah, it’s been a complete psychic change. I’m just not the same human being on any level that I was. As far as the spiritual practice, it’s a lot of things.
You know, it always starts with admitting he truth, right? It always starts with awareness of the problem. Awareness of the problem and then admitting, you know what? I’ve got an issue with this, got an issue with that. Any change starts with that.
The problem is that, a lot of people and I was in that group, believe that I can change alone, right? In fact, if I don’t change alone, I’m weak but what I found is that the rules if you will, are the opposite when it comes to spiritual things where if I surrender, that’s the key to victory. You know, when it comes to again, I trained fighting for a long time, you don’t quit.
Choke me out, I’ll pass out, I don’t care. I won’t quit. You know, business is like that to a certain degree but when it comes to spirituality, again, the rules are different. It’s really about surrendering to a higher power and there’s a great book on this called Letting Go by David Hawkins and it’s a masterpiece and it’s really about learning the process of surrendering.
Surrendering our will and again, our self-centeredness or our self-seeking to a higher power because I just couldn’t do it you know? I tried for 20 years to stop and I’d stop at times.
Listen, I put like strings of six months, nine months, but I’d be white knuckling it like I was thinking and Jones-ing about the next time. The only time that that stopped was when I literally got on my knees and I surrendered at depth.
The metaphor was that it was like, I was on the edge of a building and I just let myself fall like we did when we were kids where parents or whoever would catch us. I just said “God, I can’t do this but I believe you can so I’m falling in your hands.”
That was the process internally and boom, the obsession’s been lifted and it’s never come back ever since. I mean, that’s an incredible spiritual experience. Then the process of cleaning house, you know, I think that that’s really where you start changing as a human being.
There’s a lot to this and it’s one of the things I’ve probably done the most work on in the last eight years but first is becoming aware of all the resentments, all the fears, all the traumas that have occurred in my life. Actually, start cataloguing that.
Once you start cataloguing that, there’s a lot of things that happen. First of all, you start taking responsibility for each thing in your life. If something happens, what’s my part in that? That’s really empowering.
You go from being a victim to actually owning all of it. When you own all of it, again, you just get out of this weak victimhood mindset, into an empowered person and that starts changing everything.
From there, you can make a list of your character defects. I got like 30 plus things on my list, right? You know, it keeps growing and you know, that awareness, when you’re aware of your character defects, it allows you to manage them better, it allows you to –
On a business function, on a business level, you can bring people in, that again, have the strengths where you’re weak. Complementary.
[0:41:28.6] RN: It’s not to say like, these are my character defects, this is what I – it’s not to pull you down, it’s basically just – it’s for awareness.
[0:41:35.7] MG: Exactly.
[0:41:36.5] RN: Okay.
[0:41:37.4] MG: It’s for awareness, it’s for it to be able to manage them, it’s to – again, it’s not like you’re not there if you’re not acknowledging them so –
[0:41:47.3] RN: You might as well acknowledge them.
[0:41:48.2] MG: You might as well acknowledge them because you got a better chance of managing them. Then, this is really where the worm changes and that’s when you start cleaning house. Not just in our own house but undoing the damage that you’ve done.
Making amends and actually going to people, you know, paying off your debts. You know, going to people that you screwed a long time ago, not just financially but maybe you did something and owning it and saying, “You know what? I recognize who I was at that time was a self-centered asshole and I just want you to know that you know, I’m really sorry for that and I’ve changed and I recognized that that was not a good way to live.”
[0:42:38.5] RN: Did you do this?
[0:42:40.5] MG: Yeah.
[0:42:41.4] RN: How many people did you have to go back to and be like, that was me.
[0:42:45.6] MG: Probably 30 plus.
[0:42:47.4] RN: Wow. All pretty uncomfortable conversations or were you okay?
[0:42:52.7] MG: You know what? After the first one, it’s so – you get so lit up.
[0:42:58.4] RN: Because it’s freeing?
[0:42:59.3] MG: It’s freeing, it’s cleansing, yeah man, you’re kind of high. Yeah, there’s a little bit of uncomfortableness but you become so motivated by the oxytocin, the serotonin, the dopamine that you’re getting from doing it and it feels so good that it’s not that difficult.
[0:43:23.0] RN: What was the shift between, before you started this 30 calls, 30 plus calls to the end where you’re like, pretty much just clean house? I just apologized for years and years of wrong doing to people.
What was the difference between before and after?
[0:43:41.4] MG: Wow, you’re really cleaning karma you know? You’re really undoing a lot of bad karma, you know, people say “Karma is a bitch,” well, it’s a bitch if you want to just let the universe come collect what you owe it.
It’s actually really awesome if you proactively go and pay your debts. That’s really what that’s about. All kinds of amazing things started happening, like business wise, even just, you know, I started paying off my debts and I had people that owed me money from 12, 13 years ago that I had zero contact, paying me back, it was really miraculous.
Some really mind-blowing things that happened. I’ll share one thing, this was a mindblower. One guy, we were recording our album. We hired this base player, complete asshole thing to do, right? He drops three grand to be part of the album and unfortunately, the guy just wasn’t very good and the producer’s like, “You got to let him go.”
This is three weeks after he dropped three G’s, we let the guy go.
[0:44:52.4] RN: What’s he doing? He’s paying you to be the base player?
[0:44:55.1] MG: No, we were paying for the album. We were all contributing.
[0:44:58.6] RN: Got it.
[0:44:59.2] MG: He joins the band, he contributes, gets kicked out three weeks later.
[0:45:02.5] RN: Got it.
[0:45:05.7] MG: You know, the money’s gone, the money’s –
[0:45:07.2] RN: He didn’t ask for the money back or did he?
[0:45:09.2] MG: Well, it didn’t matter, there was no money to be given at the time.
[0:45:11.3] RN: Because it already went to the studio.
[0:45:13.1] MG: It was already in the studio and et cetera. I lost touch with the guy and that one bothered me. I’m looking for the guy, I’m on Facebook, I can’t find him.
[0:45:24.0] RN: It bothered you because he dropped 3K and didn’t…
[0:45:25.1] MG: Well yeah, it was just such an asshole thing to do that yeah, you know, that one was gnawing on my consciousness. I look for him on Facebook, can’t find him, look in the White Pages and finally, I’m literally about to hire a detective to find this guy because I’m that determined to clean house, right?
[0:45:45.6] RN: Yeah.
[0:45:48.7] MG: Now, I’m from New Brunswick, which is a province, right? Like a state if you will. That’s where I knew him. I’m in Montreal which is a completely different state, different city. Visiting my brother. We walked out of a Thai restaurant and there is the guy in his bicycle.
[0:46:05.0] RN: No way.
[0:46:06.2] MG: Yeah.
[0:46:06.7] RN: And you recognized him immediately?
[0:46:08.1] MG: Of course and I run up to him and I said, “Dude, I have been looking for you. I’ve got some money to give you” so I mean that day –
[0:46:16.1] RN: How blown away was this guy?
[0:46:17.4] MG: Probably not as blown away as I was because you know, I run the odds on things and I run the odds now and I’m like, “What’s the odds of this one in a hundred million or something?” I mean it was just a spiritual moment right? Because it just defied the odds.
[0:46:31.1] RN: Was this at the same time that you were thinking about hiring a detective that you were actually searching for. It wasn’t like you’re searching two years ago and then you literary saw this guy in the thick of it.
[0:46:40.7] MG: In the thick of it so yes, that was awesome and that was incredible kind of again, spiritual experience. So yeah, you know after you do that you just become a different person. You’re kind of fearless in a different way. Not fearless in terms of “I’ll fight anything” but you’re just fearless in the sense that you can look any man in the eye and there’s nothing inside that you are trying to hide anymore. So I really got to this place where there is nothing to hide and it was a cool place.
So from there and this is more in the last two or three years, I’ve been really getting into meditation and neuro feedback and using those tools to clean house to another level. Revisiting those traumas and fears and actually using the technology to completely erase it out of my nervous system and that’s been the most powerful thing possibly ever because you’re literary not just eliminating cognitively and intellectually and you can reframe things and that’s cool.
But when you’re pulling it out of the limbic system, your emotions, wiping it clean out of your nervous system then there’s nothing triggering you anymore.
[0:48:04.0] RN: How do you even do that?
[0:48:05.0] MG: So let’s talk about feedback. So when your feedback is as you wire your brain with electrodes and you are instantly getting feedback based on the reward that you set it up on. So most people when they’re operating, they’re in beta right? That’s relatively fast brain waves and you function in that. It’s great for executive functioning and business and it’s awesome right? But you actually cannot do – and in fact what the research says and you know, people’s experiences says –
That it’s impossible to do effective forgiveness when you’re in beta. So what you have to do is slow your brain waves down to alpha, which is way slower, where beta is like 12 to 38 which is where most probably the high zone. Alpha is eight to 12. So it is way slower and when you meditate and you meditate and you achieve a good state, it’s typically where you’ll be. The thing is with neuro feedback you can achieve those states literary.
I mean I am going to say a 100 times faster. The best metaphor I can give you is imagine if I drop you in a city that you’ve never been in the middle of the night and you’ve no GPS, you’ve got no maps and you are blind folded and I say, “Meet me in this location.” It is going to take you a long time to find me right? A long time, it is just trial and error and unfortunately when you start meditating, it’s like that. There is nothing telling you, “Hey man you’re getting closer good job.”
[0:49:40.5] RN: It’s hard, I’ve tried, it’s hard. I struggle with it.
[0:49:43.1] MG: Right and there is nothing telling you, “You are doing a bad job,” so you might be doing a horrible job and you are thinking –
[0:49:49.1] RN: There’s no feedback right. I get it, yeah.
[0:49:50.6] MG: There’s no feedback right? Now imagine same scenario, I drop you, you’re blindfolded but you got headphones on and as you’re walking I’m saying, “Closer, closer, you’re warmer,” or “You’re colder-colder.” You’re going to figure out how to get to where you want to go way faster and that’s what neuro feedback does. You can set it for alpha and as your brain is producing more alpha you’re getting the feedback of, “Yes, yes do more, do more” and you are getting audio feedback or tactile feedback.
So again, your brain is learning a 100 times faster along with the neuro feedback, you are actually following a very structured forgiveness process and the combination – there’s a lot of things that happen when your brain slowdown. So the veil between your conscious and subconscious start dissolving and actually you slow down even more when you go to theta which is slower than alpha. It really dissolves and when you slowdown to delta and that’s the sleep.
The deep sleep and some people can do it consciously awake, it dissolves it even more when you are not even sure what dimension you’re kind of thing. But the point is, you’re really accessing the subconscious trauma and what we do – what’s a trauma? So a trauma is first of all, it’s unexpected right? Like you came home and your girlfriend said, “It’s over.” You didn’t see it coming. You thought it was the greatest relationship ever, right? Unexpected.
Second, it was dramatic. So dramatic emotional experience. It’s like, “Oh my god, you feel your heart sinking, you feel crushed.” The third thing that makes trauma happen is that you don’t have the resources to deal with it in the moment and typically, the forth thing is that you feel alone. So those four things are what create trauma. They can be fears, they can be resentment, they can be sort. To me I’m classifying all of that stuff as traumas now and a lot of those happen early on.
As a kid, as a teenager and even as adults and the problem is, that unless we are trained and most of it like I never got training in this right? There’s no EQ training in my household so I never had the tools to process it right. So again, that’s what creates a trauma. So what happens is we bury that stuff into an unconscious memory system and then in today’s world, you know let’s say your current girlfriend says something that reminds you of the last girlfriend that crushed your soul.
It triggers that same emotional reaction that you didn’t process and now, it affects you in the moment right? So when neuro feedback and the forgiveness work does is that you can actually erase all of those old traumas and there’s nothing that triggers you in today’s reality. So you become a pretty clean human being. So that’s what I’ve been working on in the last couple of years.
[0:53:14.8] RN: Very cool. So how does that actually work? Are we talking like something you are listening to? What actually is neuro feedback? Or is that a super stupid question…
[0:53:24.0] MG: No, it’s a great question. Well there is three types and mostly there’s visual, audio and tactile but to do alpha you have to do eyes closed. So it’s mostly audio and tactile so literary I have a system at home and it’s Toothless, the dragon, from my pet dragon and when I produce more alpha, he vibrates. I have audio headphones and when I produce more alpha, I get more white noise or bells when my brain is in what’s called synchrony.
That’s what it is so as the bells got louder, as the white noise gets louder, as the dragon’s vibrating more, that means I am producing more and more alpha. So I know I am on the right track so keep doing that.
[0:54:10.2] RN: Yeah, so that’s your feedback?
[0:54:11.7] MG: Yes.
[0:54:12.0] RN: Okay, that makes sense, got it. Sorry, just no experience with this so it is interesting and it’s been a huge game changer for you?
[0:54:20.6] MG: Yeah, the biggest game changer actually the research on neuro feedback is mind blowing. So memory improves, intelligence improves. I mean I am not even talking, I could go on and on just in terms of the life benefits like with my wife, with my friends, business wise. Relationships. But brain function, they have done IQ test. Most people want to book 12 points. I know personally, I don’t know if my IQ went up 12 points but my ability to learn.
My brain processing speed feels like it doubled. My mental endurance probably doubled or tripled where before if I am working, I feel like I need a break after maybe 45 to 60 minutes, I can go three to four hours now and maintain peak focus. I was never able to do that before. My short term memory was really starting to go down. I feel my memory right now in the last two years is as sharp as it was when I was a teenager.
Obviously all the drugs and alcohol didn’t help right? But I feel like I have been able to reverse a lot of that and again, the research shows it is possible. I am doing a lot of gamma and neuro feedback which correlates directly to intelligence. So there’s all kinds of amazing things, creativity goes up significantly too.
[0:55:42.7] RN: So if people are listening that are like sounds super interesting, how do they find out more about it?
[0:55:47.3] MG: Well by the time this is published, I think there is going to be a blog post on my site about this.
[0:55:52.6] RN: Cool that means you’re going to publish it. The pressure is on.
[0:55:54.5] MG: Yeah, I am going to. I wrote it. It is already written.
[0:55:57.1] RN: Okay, awesome. It’s not just published?
[0:55:58.8] MG: Yeah, it should be published in the next few days.
[0:56:00.5] RN: So we’ll link it to the shownotes once –
[0:56:01.8] MG: Yeah perfect.
[0:56:02.6] RN: Once this is published people can check it out.
[0:56:04.0] MG: Yeah you can check it out and there’s two facilities that I highly recommend and there’s just a couple of questions that I like to ask people before I recommend to one or another based on their goals. But you know, my goal is to train with all the best guys out there and to see what is going on and eventually probably do my own place in Panama.
[0:56:25.6] RN: Very cool, very cool. So obviously this is the Fail On Podcast, how would you define failure?
[0:56:30.9] MG: Well you know, I’m going to be a defiant guest for a second because when I trained fighting, one of the rules of the system of [inaudible 0:56:40.7] was “There’s no failing there’s only stopping” and that is literary wired in my nervous system. So when you’re fighting, you learn quickly that missing is normal. I mean the best fighters in the world might have a 50% success rate. So 50% of the time you’re hitting air or you’re getting blocked.
So now for the untrained person, let’s say I took somebody off the street and start training and hitting pads, they just hit pads. I start moving the pads around they started missing the pads. The normal thought is, “Oh shit I missed the pad!” because I remember that’s what I thought. When you start doing the pad drills with me and the drills get harder and harder and then you start missing pads, I started thinking, “Shit! I missed the pad” but see that’s where you got to obliterate.
The “oh shit” part completely irrelevant and I mean in fighting it’s a detriment, right? There’s no time to think and you just go back to nature. I love watching animals and you watch a tiger, if he swipes and misses does he say, “Oh shit! I’d better go home” and try again maybe next week?
[0:58:03.6] RN: No, has another swipe right?
[0:58:05.2] MG: Yeah, there’s no stopping. Failure doesn’t exists at all, so for me that’s literary just been hard wired into me where the only time where I feel I failed, is if I stop.
[0:58:21.6] RN: So how do you know when? Because obviously there are certain times where you need to stop because what you’re doing might not just work. It might not be the right business. So how do you know whether or not you should stop?
[0:58:33.1] MG: Well I’m laughing because earlier on that was a challenge but again, I’ve got an addictive personality so.
[0:58:40.0] RN: So you want to make it work no matter what right?
[0:58:41.7] MG: Yeah.
[0:58:42.0] RN: Even if the business probably isn’t the right fit?
[0:58:44.3] MG: Yeah, so you know that’s a tough one at times. But you know even when things don’t work right? Again I just look at it as data. I am a very data driven person because I really feel that great data shapes destinies. I have experienced it with my sleep, with neuro feedback, with my businesses where I would have been lost. In fact I was lost here without the data. So let’s say we launch a cold traffic campaign today and it is a new product and we go on ad words and we spend money.
And let’s say we are losing 70 cents on the dollar, most people will be saying, “Holy shit! We’re failing” I’m like, “You know what? This is pretty good because we just got to optimize our way to success.” Now if we launched it and it’s donuts, it’s zeros that’s when I’m going to take a hard look and say –
[0:59:42.6] RN: You don’t have much data like you’re not getting any sales right?
[0:59:45.6] MG: Well that’s what I am going to say, “Okay this is a failure. We missed the mark here like either the product sucks, the funnel sucks, we picked the right audience, I don’t know which one of the three or all of the three but we have failed” so that’s when I go to failure is when I feel that I can’t optimize my way to success that’s when I start thinking I’ve failed.
[1:00:12.0] RN: And you can only optimize your way to success when you have some positive data points is what you’re saying?
[1:00:16.4] MG: Yeah, exactly. You need something. Give me a little something, a glimmer of hope. Yeah, you’ve got to show me a little bit of light because otherwise it’s just – you can’t multiply zeros, right?
[1:00:30.9] RN: Yeah, no.
[1:00:32.0] MG: You know we are going to keep adding traffic, keep adding visitors but soon it’s going to keep falling.
[1:00:36.0] RN: Especially if you don’t know, if you have three different variables, the traffic, the offer, you have different variables, the ad, so if you can’t pinpoint which one of those are the failure points then you’re –
[1:00:49.9] MG: Right but let’s go back to a scenario so in that case, I’ll hit the lead and again, this is assuming that I’m focused and committed to that audience right? So let’s start over, new sales letter. Let’s start a new campaign because that didn’t work. So that’s when I’ll reboot so then did I really fail? Well I certainly again learned what didn’t work, right? So failure for me is really not a word that comes up a lot and it’s not that everything is a success.
And it’s not to say that there’s not a lot of struggles because there is but it’s really a reframe into it’s just data, it’s experience and again, there’s no failure unless I’m stopping.
[1:01:44.3] RN: I like it. So obviously the whole point of this to get people to actually doing stuff like we talked about earlier. To start trying experiments, to actually get out there and take action. So with that said, a big piece of that is getting outside your comfort zone and getting comfortable in uncomfortable situations. So what would be a challenge that you could layout for the audience that we could all try and come back and reports on?
[1:02:09.6] MG: I want to give three. Alright, so first I am going to give a physical one and this is one I did a few times in my fighting days and we used to call this a wheel drill, as in a wheel powered drill. It’s a fun one in the sense that you won’t hurt yourself physically although it’s going to feel like it.
[1:02:30.8] RN: Sure. Alright, I am already nervous. Where do we go with this?
[1:02:34.2] MG: Yeah so what we would do is we would eat a habanero pepper and now the first one, you don’t know what you are getting yourself into. But my real challenge to people is try to eat two. I got to four at eight minutes one time. That was my peak if you will but yeah, it is a level of physical pain. I’ve been shot literary by a gun once and I did all kinds of stuff in fighting but nothing hurt as much as eating the pepper.
[1:03:08.6] RN: The pepper is worse than –
[1:03:10.3] MG: Yeah the pepper is worse than getting shot, yeah because –
[1:03:13.8] RN: And this is the challenge you are giving to us?
[1:03:15.2] MG: Yeah, yeah well you wanted a challenge here you go. So that is one that is a physical one.
[1:03:22.2] RN: You might as well go get shot. Apparently it’s better.
[1:03:24.8] MG: Well then the problem is the pepper is gone after an hour, the injuries from the bullet wounds might last for a lifetime. That’s the difference. Yeah, that’s one. The second one is get out there in terms of – and this is one that I’ve only start facing in the last couple of years and that’s get out there and do the one you’re scared of the most. So I’m going to watch my YouTube channel, probably the one I was scared about the most, I have shot 17 videos.
We are just editing them right now and you know whether it’s that or getting on Facebook Live or writing a blog post exposing your thoughts, I’ve come to realize because all my friends are sharing it that it’s a huge fear for people to put their thoughts out there. It’s scary right? So that’s an awesome challenge.
[1:04:17.3] RN: I love it, so what would be specifically that somebody could do? Write a blog post, do a Facebook Live or something?
[1:04:25.9] MG: Do a Facebook Live and again share your thoughts not just like fooling around and having fun or whatever that’s cool. But actually sharing your thoughts because that’s what people are scared of is to get judged.
[1:04:38.0] RN: Yeah, based on your opinion.
[1:04:39.5] MG: Based on your opinion you know? So that’s the second challenge and the last challenge is make an inventory of all the traumas. The pain, the fears, the regrets and making the inventory is the first step because after that, you can get into some work but even making the list scares a lot of people. It’s pretty terrifying.
[1:05:05.4] RN: And then once that inventory is made, what do you recommend. Because what I am picturing is I am digging up all the traumas and worst experiences of our lives but then just like sitting with them, what do we do with them?
[1:05:21.1] MG: Yeah you don’t want to sit with them and you don’t want to analyze them either. So the most effective thing you can do is to actually start doing the forgiveness work then again whether you can afford neuro feedback, that’s a different story. Sometimes forgiving yourself because a lot of times, the stuff that we did to other people. Or what we did to ourselves right and that’s where a lot of – a source of regret.
So doing some deep forgiveness work which again, you need to meditate and relax and slow your brain waves down and then I’ll just guide people really quick so that people have a frame work and again you can replay this. So here’s the process, so give me something and I’ll guide you through one.
[1:06:10.0] RN: Okay, so one I was talking about earlier today. So I’ve got a fear of public speaking. So one and where that stems from is back in college, I remember I have to give a presentation for the class, 12 to 15 people. A topic I didn’t care about, I didn’t like, I didn’t want to really give the talk, I didn’t want to present. When I think about public speaking now, I go back to that day and I remember my voice is quivering. Literary I am standing in front of the class my legs would not stop shaking and so now whenever I think about it, whenever I think about speaking in front of people now, that’s what I go back to.
[1:06:46.6] MG: Okay cool, perfect. So just close your eyes and let’s go back to that moment. So I want you to replay that movie and describe the scene and you started doing it – but I actually want you to go back. Go back to that moment in your head and more importantly, emotionally, of a little bit of what is going on.
[1:07:09.7] RN: So sitting in the class, I know my turn is coming up, my stomach is churning. I’ve got that feeling where it’s like, “I don’t want to do this.” So my turn comes up, I get up terrified, go in front of the class. I keep looking down, my legs start shaking, extremely nervous. I started giving the talk, my voice is shaking throughout the whole thing, glance up occasionally. Some people are looking, some people aren’t paying attention at all and that’s where it ends.
[1:07:46.0] MG: Okay, so describe the feeling that you felt at that moment?
[1:07:50.4] RN: Terrified.
[1:07:51.3] MG: Terrified, okay and you felt it where? In your stomach?
[1:07:54.5] RN: My stomach mainly, yeah.
[1:07:55.6] MG: Okay, so are you feeling it on your stomach right now as you replay that?
[1:07:58.5] RN: Yeah.
[1:07:59.2] MG: Okay, now what we are going to do right now, we are going to stop playing the movie. We are going to go right to your body. So go to the most intense part of the sensation and again, we are just going to label it as sensation. So go to your stomach and describe to me is it moving, is it throbbing, how would you describe it?
[1:08:20.1] RN: It feels like it’s in 38 knots just like wound up really tight, my heart is beating a little faster.
[1:08:28.8] MG: Okay, so stick in the stomach and really focus on that now. In the scale of zero to ten, where ten would be the most uncomfortable you could feel, what level is it right now?
[1:08:41.5] RN: Eight.
[1:08:42.3] MG: Okay, cool. So we are going to stick with it. Now I want you to take a deep breath. So one of the things you can do is actually this is from EFT, we are going to tap right here. This is an acupressure point, you can open your eyes just so you can see where, we are going to tap right there. It doesn’t matter really how or you can tap here so just keep your eyes closed, keep focusing in your stomach and you’re going to repeat after me, deep breath. Even though I feel terrified in my stomach.
[1:09:18.8] RN: I feel terrified in my stomach.
[1:09:20.8] MG: When I think of that day where I spoke publicly in university college.
[1:09:27.3] RN: When I think of that day where I spoke publicly in university college.
[1:09:32.2] MG: I deeply and completely accept myself.
[1:09:35.5] RN: I deeply and completely accept myself.
[1:09:38.3] MG: Even though.
[1:09:38.7] RN: Even though.
[1:09:40.1] MG: I feel terrified in my stomach.
[1:09:42.4] RN: Even though I feel terrified in my stomach.
[1:09:44.5] MG: When I think of the day I spoke publicly in college
[1:09:47.7] RN: When I think of the day I spoke publicly in college.
[1:09:49.5] MG: I deeply and completely accept myself.
[1:09:52.7] RN: I deeply and completely accept myself.
[1:09:54.8] MG: Take a deep breath. Alright, what’s the subject to levels of discomfort now from one to 10? It was an eight before, has it dropped?
[1:10:05.2] RN: Much, yeah.
[1:10:06.0] MG: Okay, was it now, give me a number.
[1:10:07.7] RN: Three.
[1:10:07.7] MG: Okay. Now, we’re going to get into some forgiveness work so what I always like to drop the levels, like what we just did from like an eight to three. Three is a good place to start doing the work.
I want you to – now, is there somebody specific that was laughing at you or that you felt judged you or was it just more all you?
[1:10:32.7] RN: No, just internal.
[1:10:33.9] MG: Okay. Then we’re going to put yourself on trial, okay? I want you to put that version of yourself on trial. What we’re going to do, you’re going to picture a spiritual courtroom, alright?
You picture a spiritual courtroom and you’re there and you’re seeing that younger version of yourself and what’s the charge that you’re going to put on him, like what is the charge? Is it that he felt fear, is it that he boxed, you know, what’s the charge that you like to place on that younger version yourself?
[1:11:16.9] RN: Yeah, I would say fear, maybe lack of courage.
[1:11:20.8] MG: Okay, that’s good. The charge is a lack of courage, right? Now, I want you to pick a guide, a spiritual guide wherever spiritual being can be Jesus Christ, Buddha, an arch angel, whoever works for you.
He’s going to be their kind of guiding through the process. Let’s go back to that moment and let’s replay that again a little bit, try to dream up a little more of that feeling so you’re back in college and you know, you go back to that sensation, you’re trembling, you’re feeling your stomach turning in knots, okay? You’ve got it?
[1:12:05.8] RN: Yup.
[1:12:06.0] MG: Alright. First question is, what was the gift of that experience?
[1:12:13.0] RN: What do you mean?
[1:12:13.8] MG: Well, if you think back of that experience, right? There’s always a gift in every experience, right? What we want to do is find the gift. When you think back of that moment in college, right?
Sometimes a gift is you know, just growth or sometimes it’s awareness, there’s always on a direct gift but there’s always some sort of gift. What would be the gift that you could say you got from that moment, from that experience?
[1:12:43.8] RN: I did it even though I was uncomfortable with it.
[1:12:45.7] MG: Okay, maybe you built some courage, right? Alright, cool. That’s a great gift. I want you to feel gratitude for that. I want you to flood your body with gratitude. I want you to flood your whole being with active appreciation of the fact that you did it in the moment, that you faced the fear and that you did it.
Awesome. Next we’re going to move on, take a deep breath.
[1:13:21.0] RN: Alright.
[1:13:22.5] MG: Next I want you to take responsibility for your actions at that time, you know? Taking responsibility doesn’t mean to beat yourself up, it just means you own it, you know, extreme ownership is another framework if you will.
You know, just own the fact that you were scared and you know, another part of that too is just understanding. Understanding that it’s normal, it’s a normal part of a human being to be judged and to fear being judged, right?
We all want to be valued in our tribe. Go through the process of understanding why you were scared and at the same time, you want to own it and then the last piece is to feel compassionate, compassion for that younger version of yourself.
Feel compassion for who he was, for the fact he wasn’t who you are now and again, flood your body with compassion. Now, if you're struggling with this, if you’re struggling any part of it, you ask your guide to help you. When you – in your body where the stomach was 38 knots, how is it feeling right now?
[1:14:49.6] RN: It’s not even there really.
[1:14:50.8] MG: Okay. Yeah, that’s the process. As you can see, it’s work, right?
[1:14:58.5] RN: Yeah, it’s not easy.
[1:14:59.9] MG: Yeah, it’s not easy.
[1:15:00.1] RN: You have to go, just going back and feeling that pain was.
[1:15:04.7] MG: Right.
[1:15:05.2] RN: It’s hard because I felt those knots, you know? I’m not just saying, it’s like, you go back to that place and it’s uncomfortable.
[1:15:13.1] MG: But how do you feel right now?
[1:15:13.8] RN: Much better, because I was so hard on myself. Why?
[1:15:19.0] MG: Yeah, what you’re going to notice is the next time that the opportunity to speak publicly comes, the fear is going to be possibly gone but at the very least, a fraction of what it was before.
[1:15:31.9] RN: Sure.
[1:15:33.2] MG: Imagine doing that a hundred times with a hundred things that you process.
[1:15:39.0] RN: Deep stuff. Deep work.
[1:15:40.7] MG: Now, it’s deep work, yeah. That’s my challenge for everybody listening. Do that, listening and follow along with us and pick one thing that is a big thing.
[1:15:52.1] RN: Thanks for going through that because obviously taking inventory is one thing but actually having the tools to make them listen to, go through the exercise with the inventory they’ve taken and we literally just hit it right here and it’s powerful. Thank you.
[1:16:06.5] MG: Yeah. Then when you combine that with your feedback, it accelerates it. It takes like, just again, everybody say you can do it without the feedback, don’t use this as a crutch to get out of it but it accelerates it.
[1:16:21.8] RN: Very cool. Let’s go through those one more time, the three challenges. So, number one?
[1:16:25.9] MG: Number one is, if the habanero is too much, if you were a wuss, eat a couple of jalapenos which is literally a lot less. But, that’s one. Second, the one we just covered – make a long list of the inventory and the third one was to put yourself out there. Whether it’s Facebook Live, YouTube, blog post.
[1:16:51.8] RN: Voice your opinion.
[1:16:52.5] MG: Yeah, voice your opinion, you know? Prepare yourself for the haters.
[1:16:57.1] RN: I love it.
[1:16:57.6] MG: Which you probably won’t get any.
[1:16:59.9] RN: But I got to tell you, from what I was, doing, like I was saying, Media Vine? Which is kind of just arbitrage, you’re looking at spend and spin versus revenue.
[1:17:08.2] MG: It’s a video game, right?
[1:17:09.3] RN: Yeah, it’s a video game. One thing I’m loving with everything I’m doing now is just purely the act of creation – what you’re talking about. The voicing your opinion, it’s fun to put content out in the world which I’m sure you’re getting with mattgallant.tv.
[1:17:22.2] MG: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I’m a creative guy by nature although people say, your data driven, you know. I’m really a creative guy that uses data to validate the creativity. Yeah, no, creation’s the ultimate thing man. Whether it was writing a song or writing a blog post or doing a podcast, right?
[1:17:43.2] RN: You finish and you just feel good.
[1:17:45.2] MG: Yeah.
[1:17:45.6] RN: Because your consumption’s such a big thing, right? I think for me, that was one of my main goals this year was just produce more than I consume which is simple but.
[1:17:57.9] MG: Yeah, absolutely but the way I look at it, this was kind of a big awakening and then I got last Christmas, then that’s – you know, awareness is one of the most precious gifts we have.
Awareness comes in different things. Sometimes we’re aware in one area of our lives and we’re completely unaware in another one, right? You see that, you might have a guy that’s an enlightened business man but his health is completely in the gutter, right?
There’s no awareness in his health. For those of us that have awareness, whether it’s awareness in business or awareness in health or awareness in spirituality, I feel that it’s our duty to spread that, to share that because it’s a beautiful thing to help other human beings become awake, right?
We do that with podcast and books and seminars, how we can disseminate these awakened ideas, again, that awareness, it’s a beautiful thing.
I think that’s how we make the world a better place.
[1:19:12.3] RN: I love it man.
[1:19:13.4] MG: Yeah.
[1:19:14.4] RN: I’m going to respect your time but thank you so much for joining us today and we’ll all report back to the challenges.
[1:19:20.0] MG: Yeah, I want to see all those comments on the post.
[1:19:23.4] RN: Awesome.
[1:19:23.5] MG: Awesome.
[1:19:24.1] RN: Thank you.
[1:19:24.8] MG: Great.
[1:19:24.6] RN: Appreciate it.
[1:19:25.9] MG: Thank you.
[1:19:29.4] RN: Alright, you can find Matt @mattgallant_tv on Twitter, that’s @mattgallant_tv and of course, all the links and resources Matt and I discussed, including more information on his story, businesses and online courses can be found at the page we created especially for this episode. That will be at failon.com/030 and next week, we are sitting down with my friend Cherie Alexander.
Cherie is a speaker, writer, trainer and coach and is best known for revealing the powerful secrets behind conversational influence. She is personally learned the best persuasive triggers and techniques for master influencers including CIA field agents, hostage negotiators, con artist, trial attorneys and many more.
Cherie is extremely open and vulnerable in this conversation, she’s an absolute gem, don’t miss it, that’s coming next week. If the podcast and show is providing value to your life, please email me at email@example.com and let me know what your biggest takeaway form this episode with Matt was.
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[1:21:00.1] ANNOUNCER: That’s all for this episode of The Fail On Podcast. For more resources, show notes and action items to help you find success in your failures, sign up for our mailing list at failon.com. For more actionable inspiration, we’ll catch you next time right here on The Fail On Podcast.