Craig Clemens is a direct response copywriter with over one billion dollars in sales. Yes, billion with a B.
Craig is currently the cofounder of Golden Hippo Media, a media company focused on bringing sustainable health and wellness to people all over the world.
Craig got started writing copy for Eben Pagan’s program, Double Your Dating, which grew to over 20 million dollars per year in revenue.
Since then, Craig has cofounded three eight-figure businesses in just the last five years in diverse industries ranging from nutrition, to cosmetics, to dating advice.
In this episode, we get to hear Craig’s unique entrepreneurial journey; from selling reptiles, shells and magazines door-to-door, to starting his own company with a team of some of the best young writers in the world.
We’ll be discussing the value of mentorship. How Craig was able to get a world class education, through a well-known mentor, to launch his copywriting career.
Craig also goes into the four-part formula for what it takes to become the best in class at whatever you want to succeed in.
And if you’re not sure where to begin, Craig lays down a 60-day challenge to help us make a permanent lifestyle change to improve our lives.
Key Points From This Episode:
- Snakes, shells and magazines: Craig’s first taste of entrepreneurship.
- Lessons Craig learnt from door to door selling.
- Find out how Craig got into Google Cash and ebook sales.
- Why Craig fell in love with copywriting despite failing English.
- How Craig received a world class education in marketing.
- The value of good mentorship.
- Impacts of the 2008 crash on Craig’s business and life.
- How Craig picked himself back up after retrenchment.
- Discover how Golden Hippo Media was born.
- Craig’s business ventures in men’s supplements and skin care.
- Challenges in the supplement industry today.
- Copywriting for big books on the market today.
- Why immersion can be the best education.
- The four-part formula to become the best in class.
- Writing great copy and the variables of its success.
- Accepting that sometimes you’re hot and sometimes you’re not.
- The power of the 60-day challenge.
- And much more!
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Golden Hippo Media – http://goldenhippo.com/
Craig Clemens on Twitter – https://twitter.com/craigclemens
Unbound Merino – http://unboundmerino.com Promo Code – FailOn
Craig Clemens on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigclemens/
The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A Fuck by Mark Manson – https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713
The Plant Paradox – https://www.amazon.com/Plant-Paradox-Dangers-Healthy-Disease/dp/006242713X
Power Of The 60-Day Challenge by Craig Clemens – https://medium.com/@craigclemens/how-to-change-your-life-in-60-days-787b71b7249a
“JG: I’ve written letters recently that I’ll go back and look at like a year later so let’s say, something I wrote in like 2015. I’ll read it and I’ll be like, you know what? The reason this tanked is tested advertising methods in the 1970’s. It’s so obvious later, you know? You can be a really strong writer and still just get caught up in your own head and write something that tanks and violate basic principles of marketing and never know it. That’s part of the struggle of being a writer, is that you’re going to have your bombs and sometimes you’re hot and sometimes you’re not.”
[0:00:43.8] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to The Fail on Podcast where we explore the hardships and obstacles today’s industry leaders face on their journey to the top of their fields, through careful insight and thoughtful conversation. By embracing failure, we’ll show you how to build momentum without being consumed by the result.
Now please welcome your host, Rob Nunnery.
[0:01:09.1] RN: Hey there and welcome to the show that believes leveraging failure is not only the fastest way to learn but is also the fastest way to start a business, quit your job and live a life of absolute freedom. In a world that only shares successes, we dissect the struggle by talking to honest and vulnerable entrepreneurs.
This is a platform for their stories and today’s story is a good one, it’s of Craig Clemens. Craig is a direct response copywriter with over one billion dollars in sales, yes, with a B. He’s currently the cofounder of Gold Hippo Media. He got started writing copy for Evan Pagan’s program, Double Your Dating which grew to over 20 million dollars per year. Since then, Craig has cofounded three eight figure businesses in just the last five years, in diverse industries ranging from nutrition, to cosmetics, to dating advice.
We’ll be discussing the value of mentorship and how Craig was able to get a world class education through a well-known mentor, to launch his copywriting career. Craig will go into the four-part formula for what it takes to become the best in the class at whatever you want to succeed in. Craig lays down a 60 day challenge to help us make a lifestyle change that can become permanent and improve our lives.
But first, luckily, all I travel with now is a backpack for one reason only, it’s clothing from an innovative Toronto apparel company called Unbound Marino, they have clothes made out of marino wool that you can wear for months on end without ever needing to have it washed.
This means I can travel with less clothes since the clothes apparently clean themselves. Check out the show notes page for an exclusive Fail On discount that you won’t be able to get anywhere else and of course, If you’d like to stay up to date on all the fail on podcast interviews and key takeaways from each guest, simply go to failon.com and sign up for our newsletter at the bottom of the page. That’s failon.com.
[0:03:03.2] RN: Take us back to the first time that somebody gave you money in exchange for a product or service because that’s usually like a big paradigm shift for people that are coming from like working for other people, to actually creating something and somebody gives you money for it? What was that first time?
[0:03:17.5] CC: Yeah, well, my first time, I didn’t actually make anything. I made my first dollar in the internet doing affiliate marketing which is as you know, just kind of putting the pixels in the right places. This is back in the days when people were using the method called Google Cash to do –
[0:03:40.5] RN: It was before my days.
[0:03:41.4] CC: This is before your time? Okay. let me tell you about how it was when I used to market on internet son. Back in the day it was Google Ad Words, that was like the wild, wild west of internet marketing and you could send visitors direct from Google when they’re searching for how to win the slot machines in Vegas.
If someone had a book on how to beat the slot machines, you could buy the ad on Google and if you could grab search terms that people were typing in better than the business owner, you could send them to business owners site and get the commission from them.
[0:04:20.1] RN: Got it.
[0:04:22.1] CC: People came up with all kinds of tools that would allow you to find like a million little search terms, you know, not just how to win at slots but this would be like, how to win at sloth machine S.
If they forgot the space between the E and the S, you know? You might get one click a year on that but that person would buy that freaking book man, then you get your commission you know? Which is usually 50% of the purchase price or something like that.
That’s a real example, the first thing I ever promoted as an affiliate was a book called Slot Machine Secrets by John Carlo Capucio who is still a friend of mine. John, what’s up if you’re listening to this.
Yeah, that was on Click Bank which you know, was a network where you’d go and find these ebooks that people were putting out and you could just sign up for the commission program where you’d get 50% of the commission or whatever the merchant put out.
[0:05:20.6] RN: how did you hear about that? How did you hear about the affiliate marketing? “I can make money online.” Where did that come from? Did you have somebody else that told you about it or you just searching online for something?
[0:05:29.3] CC: Yeah, at the time I was in the internet marketing space. I was working for Evan Pagan at his company which did dating advice ebooks and we had people who would promote our ebooks as affiliates. I saw that making a little bit of money but then I heard about this Google Cash method and I thought it was total BS.
The weird thing about the internet versus reality, right? You know, growing up. I was the kid who would open up the back of the penny saver. Penny saver, there’s all these get rich quick schemes.
I’d open up the back of the penny saver, there’s all these get rich quick schemes in the back and I thought they would actually work. I would call or write in to get all of them and I bet, one of these things has to work, right?
They were all like MLM’s or like, you know, stuffing envelopes from home, shit like that that was mostly pyramid schemes and bullshit. When the internet came along, there was all these things that were kind of like that, like stuff envelopes at home or like you know, this case was like Google Cash method.
But some of them were not bullshit, some of them actually worked. I had a friend and he’s like “Yeah, my little brother is 16 and he’s doing this Google Cash thing and making like 500 to a thousand bucks a month.”
I was like, “Wait a second, your little brother? I got to be smarter than this guy. I could probably do this too.” I heard what he was doing and I downloaded the same course that he did. I went through it and I started doing this Slot Machine Secrets ebook, just buying search terms in Google, sending them straight to the ebook webpage.
[0:07:18.7] RN: There’s a course you actually took to learn this method?
[0:07:22.8] CC: Correct, yeah, I think that was an ebook itself.
[0:07:26.9] RN: It was how to do this right?
[0:07:28.0] CC: That guy was probably getting rich selling ebooks and how to get rich selling ebooks. Yeah, I did this in my first month. I made $330 and I remember that number because it was the exact amount of my car payment. I was like wow, if I could make this every month, my car payment is done.
Then the next month I made $660 and I doubled my money and I was like, now I can make my car payment and I have enough money left over to eat lunch at Baha Fresh every day. Because Baha Fresh was like the baller ship back then, you know? Like Taco Bell was like what I was used to but now I could step it up and get that like burrito with real meat in it, instead of you know, the mystery stuff.
[0:08:10.6] RN: Who knows what else, yeah.
[0:08:13.1] CC: Does that count?
[0:08:14.7] RN: 100%. You didn’t actually – same with me, I got into it the same way. Going back before that though, were you raised around kind of business people entrepreneurs or was that totally foreign to you as you came up through high school, college?
[0:08:32.8] CC: Yeah, my parents had traditional jobs, my mom was a school teacher, my dad was a rocket scientist, actually designed parts for the space station and rocket engines. They really wanted all of us brothers, I have two brothers, to go to college. I just never felt like it was for me but they were making that hard push.
But I was always getting into entrepreneurial stuff. I remember when I was I think seven or eight, I got all of the neighbor kids to bring their pets over to my yard and we collected reptiles, we had like frogs and toads and snakes.
[0:09:07.1] RN: Nice.
[0:09:08.8] CC: And lizards and like, I wasn’t joking, it’s true though, there was at no point in my childhood where there wasn’t at least one snake lose in our house. My mom became an expert at like catching snakes and putting them back in their cage.
[0:09:25.4] RN: Sounds terrifying.
[0:09:25.9] CC: Yeah. I got all the neighbors to bring up their animals as well and put my front yard and I had a zoo. Then we told all the parents in the neighborhood, would like come through and give a dollar to be a part of the zoo.
[0:09:38.0] RN: That’s awesome.
[0:09:38.6] CC: Everyone came through and walked through and like their golden retriever was there and then there’d be like a turtle and a cat and a snake and the lizards. I was always doing things like that.
My brothers and I went to Hawaii and we saw that there’s all these shells in the beach and then we went to the gift shops and they would have like a big clam shell in the gift shop with a bunch of little shells in it and plastic wrap over the top.
Selling it for like 10 bucks and we’re like, we could make these. Just from the shells in the beach. We went and got our own shells off the beach and put them all together and then when we got home, we went door to door selling the shells.
[0:10:15.9] RN: The super Hawaiian shells.
[0:10:18.7] CC: Yeah, this is all funny stuff man. This is straight from the beach of Hawaii, you know? Now in your own living room bringing you the magic of the islands. I don’t think I was like a smooth salesman, I think I was just like a little kid.
They’re like “Here kid, take some money, leave me alone.” Yeah, you know, one thing I didn’t realize until actually right now that you asked me, thank you for asking me. Is that the elementary school did train us in a little bit of entrepreneurship when they would do these magazine contests and book contests.
There was this thing called book it that would happen one week a year where this company would come in and at the school they’d be like, “Okay, we’re going to give you kids like these things to go sell magazines door to door and whoever sells the most magazines, gets a pizza party.”
[0:11:05.4] RN: Which is awesome at the time.
[0:11:07.5] CC: I mean, are you kidding me? You get to leave school and like go to the pizza place and order whatever you want, you know? Play video games and stuff and I was all over that shit. It trains you how to go door to door and sell things.
I never thought about that until just now but that was awesome training. If we hadn’t done the magazines, then we wouldn’t have been able to do the shells and just that thought of opening the door you know? I mean, Gary Halbert who for those at home who don’t know.
Who many consider to be the greatest copywriter of all time, you know? Wrote some of the most successful advertisements in history. He started out selling, I think it was encyclopedias door to door and he says, “Anyone who wants to learn how to sell, you got to go door to door and then sell things,” you know? That’s what people used to do.
[0:11:53.6] RN: Going from the first dollars you made, the 330 then doubled your money. Where did it go from there because you were working for somebody else that time?
[0:12:02.1] CC: Yeah, well that was when Austin Powers came out and then I was like at a million. At that point, I realized that there was real money to made in in it and I told my two brothers about this thing I had discovered and they started doing it and they were doing better than me.
One of them made a thousand dollars his first month, the other made 2,000 and the brother who made, I forget which – but one of my brothers was going to college and getting straight A’s in junior college. We all like did terrible high school.
The best we could do is junior college, you know? With the rest of the losers. All of my friends have their shit together, moved out of our boring hometown and went to like awesome universities and they were living in the dorms and having the time of their life with like women and kegs and shit like that.
I was still living my parent’s house like a jackass and so were my brothers. For those of you at home thinking about having kids and thinking that it’s just 18 years? No. I think I moved ‘till I was 21 or 22 and my brother Mark, I think he was like – I don’t want to say.
In case he listens to this interview. Anyway, he was going to school and getting straight A’s and that was my parent’s dream – that one of us would graduate college. I went to my other brother Kurt and I said “Kurt, I think we should be business partners since you have time to invest in this, Mark doesn’t because he’s in school.”
Let’s be business partners, let’s combine our affiliate businesses and we did. Kurt was a wizard at this affiliate game. He figured out things that no one else was doing on Google Ad Words. The income kept growing and growing.
[0:13:57.1] RN: Okay, I guess, how old were you at this time once the affiliate game was going and then when did that wrap up and why did you stop doing it?
[0:14:05.8] CC: Yeah, okay. This began in 2005, I remember I created my first Google Ad Words account 2005. I remember we spent so much money on Google in our first year that they sent us a refrigerator.
Little Google fridge for the office that we didn’t have. Let’s see, I was working for Evan at the time and he was training me in writing sales copy and that was awesome, he was a great mentor to me and it was a really exciting company where he had 80 people all working from home.
I was the ninth employee and this is the early days of the internet you know? A lot of people didn’t even know what ebooks were and we were selling ebooks with dating advice. There was one for men called Double Your Dating and one for women called Catch Him and Keep Him. I was learning sales copy and then I was doing the affiliate thing on the side.
My role in the affiliate business became writing some of the copy and then my brother would do the day to day, like management and the Google Ad Words.
[0:15:04.0] RN: You kind of naturally transitioned based on your training at Evan’s company to do mainly writing?
[0:15:10.2] CC: Correct.
[0:15:11.3] RN: He gravitated towards that because you enjoyed it or you saw – did you see what eventually – how powerful that skill is or what was your whole motivation to just write?
[0:15:21.3] CC: I was not hired as a writer. I was hired as like a customer service person, but to sell to people who wrote in with questions. “Will this help me get my ex-girlfriend back?”
I’d be like, “Well, probably – she’s probably long-gone man but on page 37, there’s a line that will let you meet like 10 new girls this weekend,” you know?
[0:15:40.8] RN: She’s probably long-gone.
[0:15:42.1] CC: Yeah, “If it doesn’t work for you, let me know. I’ll personally refund your money.” I would answer those questions. I wouldn’t answer questions like “How do I download my ebook,” you know?
I was brought in as customer service. I bought banner ads and did all kinds of stuff. I managed the affiliate program for a while and then Evan was showing me all of these copywriting books and things like that. Just so I knew marketing.
He was such a great mentor and like teaching everyone how the business worked and how marketing worked. Then I started listening to Gary Halbert’s stuff and that’s when I fell in love with the idea of becoming a copywriter.
I didn’t know if I had what it took because I wasn’t a great writer. I think I had failed English class.
[0:16:15.5] RN: So you mean in the traditional sense?
[0:16:17.2] CC: Yeah, it was not something I was like big into, you know? I liked talking and before my copywriting and affiliate marketing days, I was doing phone sales and I worked at a lot of different phone sales companies. Boiler room type stuff, you know, from like stuff I’m not proud of to more traditional stuff, selling merchant accounts like mortgages that I’m also not proud of. That was a little more above radar so to speak. Evan had us reading all the marketing books and giving us a world class education in marketing.
He even sent me to some marketing seminars where I got to meet people who were just crushing it. I remember one of them was a guy named John Reese, it was his program called the Triple Your Profit Workshop.
It was only a hundred people and everyone had to pay like 4,500 bucks to be there and Evan sent me and another guy, Drew from the company. I remember being in this room and there was you know, the hundred people in this room and I’d find out all these different ways they were making money. Like one of the guys was a search engine optimization specialist and another guy was building software like to create thousands of pages and things like that.
Another guy was selling courses like Evan was and then there was a guy in there that – did this thing with launching products and his name was Jeff Walker, he’s quite well-known now. All these people were in this room. I remember just being in this room and looking around and I was like, this is the real get rich thing.
All of these people in this room are killing it in different ways. The internet is where this is at. I felt so lucky to be in that room. I felt like that was the cumulation of all of those ads in the back of penny saver that I had answered. All of the MLM’s I tried and like you know –
[0:18:20.0] RN: You were there as an employee, did that make you, did you feel like “Okay, I need to do this on my own yet,” or –
[0:18:25.0] CC: No, I really enjoyed working for Evan and –
[0:18:29.2] RN: And you were probably very grateful that he sent you to that event.
[0:18:32.3] CC: Super grateful. I was getting world-class training. He’s one of the best copywriters in the world so he would look at my copy and tell me why it sucked, you know? Which I think is critical. If you’re trying to become a copywriter, you need that mentor to tell you why your shit sucks you know? Because the split tests are often difficult to read.
[0:18:48.2] RN: Right.
[0:18:49.8] CC: Yeah, that was invaluable and I was doing the affiliate marketing at the time like on the side, didn’t ever think of that would become something that would make more money than the salary I was getting with Evan.
[0:19:04.3] RN: Just moving the timeline along a little bit. What was the transition like leaving, working for Evan and why did you?
[0:19:11.2] CC: Come 2008/2009, the recession hit and I got laid off.
[0:19:17.0] RN: Got it.
[0:19:19.2] CC: You know, the reason was, I was writing at that time, most of the copy for the dating advice brands. Most of that copy had been written, there wasn’t any new products coming out so we had sales letters for all the products and I had helped him launch his business development program which is called Altitude, which is amazing business training still around today.
He liked writing that copy himself. I was no longer needed. I got laid off and at the time, my affiliate business was doing well.
[0:19:45.7] RN: Were there hard feelings at the time? Were you upset?
[0:19:49.1] CC: Well.
[0:19:49.9] RN: Was it unexpected, I guess?
[0:19:51.0] CC: Yeah. The thing that was a little odd is he didn’t tell me I got laid off, the money just stopped.
[0:19:58.8] RN: You just stopped getting paid?
[0:20:00.4] CC: Well, it was a troubling time for him because he had to lay off like half the company.
[0:20:04.2] RN: You said he had a lot of employees, all remote but like 80. Okay.
[0:20:09.3] CC: Yeah. I mean, this recession, you know, for those who were in business during it, remember, this was –
[0:20:16.5] RN: I got laid off 2008 as well, I remember it.
[0:20:20.2] CC: Yeah, everyone at the company, they got laid off to the pay cut. I guess in his 80 phone calls –
[0:20:25.5] RN: He forgot your call.
[0:20:28.2] CC: One day, I’m checking my bank account, I’m like, my money didn’t come in today and then I remembered I got some in the mail that said, “Do you want to renew your health insurance?”
I was like shit. I emailed the CFO and I was like, “What’s going on” and he’s like, “Evan didn’t call you?” You know, we’ve since sorted it but at the time I was a little taken aback but at the same time, my affiliate business was doing well, that was enough to pay my bills at the time.
Of course, a couple of months later, the recession trickled through to that also and that dried up. I was like, shit, I’m broke again, you know? I had been doing quite well, I was driving a Porsche. You know. Living in Hollywood Hills.
[0:21:16.8] RN: Expenses were high but no income was coming in?
[0:21:18.1] CC: Right, I had to sell my car and then move out of the house, moved to an apartment with my brother Kurt.
[0:21:22.7] RN: Was that like a big humbling thing for you?
[0:21:24.6] CC: Totally, I thought it was all over.
[0:21:25.6] RN: Yeah.
[0:21:26.9] CC: I was like “Shit, it’s all over. I’m going to be back doing phone sales or something like that.”
[0:21:30.8] RN: “Little schemes don’t work anymore, I got to figure out something else.”
[0:21:35.6] CC: At this point. I mean yeah, I mean, Evan’s business was a very legit business that was providing a lot of value with the training programs. Our affiliate business was – I wouldn’t call it a scheme. However the best way I’ve heard it defined is John Reese says, “Create a business, not a money maker.” The affiliate thing was a money maker.
[0:21:58.9] RN: 100%, we’ve talked about this. Because that’s the business I was in.
[0:22:03.2] CC: You’re basically a traffic broker, we were traffic brokers.
[0:22:06.5] RN: 100%. You have nothing to sell, right? If you stopped buying traffic, you stopped making money.
[0:22:11.8] CC: Right, that was what happened is we couldn’t buy traffic anymore. What happened at that same time was Google banned bridge pages, what they called which was the in between page between their advertising and the seller.
[0:22:24.1] RN: Right.
[0:22:25.7] CC: That was what we were doing at the time was we were just basically a traffic broker, a middle man. Yeah.
[0:22:30.2] RN: Okay, you were at the slow point, you sell your car, you move in with your brother, you’re probably feeling pretty crappy at this point, I would imagine. What’s your game plan in your head? Go get a job or what?
[0:22:43.8] CC: Yeah, I left though with a world-class education. More so, I left with a world class copy writing education and I was a pretty good copywriter at the time. I knew I could do some freelance work. I knew I could find the right copywriting position and I would be in demand for that.
Yeah, because there’s some businesses that are recession proof. I actually did my first and only freelance project at the time, it was with Joe Polish and I wrote him a sales letter to help him with his conference which was for carpet cleaners on how to make more money.
I wrote this sales letter for Rich Cleaner 2.0 conference and that helped me pay my bills for like a few months and in the meantime, I was talking with –
[0:23:36.4] RN: How did you know Joe at the time?
[0:23:37.2] CC: Through Evan because they would do Masterminds together and they needed someone to take a bullet point notes. I was the guy in the back of the room taking the notes for the big dogs.
[0:23:48.0] RN: That’s cool because I think it’s an important lesson because when you start hanging around people that are doing better than you, you naturally kind of start picking yourself up, right?
In terms of you, kind of gravitate to the whole saying: “You’re the average of the five people you hang out with the most.” It’s so true. It seems like you were putting yourself in these situations where you’re having access to the Jeff Walkers, to Joe Polish and all these guys. How important was that for you in terms of going from being an employee for Evan to growing your skillset?
[0:24:23.1] CC: Mega, I mean, I would meet so many great people who had beaten the system so to speak. You know, who hadn’t gone to college or had started their own business or you know, we’re doing their own thing and that let me know that it was possible and each one of them had their own little thing, you know?
Joe Polish was teaching carpet cleaners, how to make more money at the time. That was his thing. Then John Reese was, I mean, actually he was doing so many things but he’s buying and selling domain names, you know, web hosting company.
He had his own info product back in the day, it’s like telling people how to teach – teaching people how to sell on eBay. All types of different stuff there but everyone had their thing and I was like, “You know, when’s it going to be my turn to figure something out, you know?”
Then I thought that this affiliate marketing plus copy writing was my turn. I was able to make my first million doing that and then it turned off and I was like, “The whole fucking game is over. The internet’s dead.”
[0:25:28.4] RN: The internet’s dead. Alright, just to kind of move it along again, where do you go from selling your car, moving in with your brother, what’s the plan? Because like you said, you had a world class education, you had the skill, you start – you write a letter for Joe Polish, where does the career go from that? Did you do more freelancing? Where do you go?
[0:25:50.9] CC: Yeah, about the same time, I got a note from a guy who had seen me speak at one of Evan’s business programs and he said, “Hey, do you do phone consulting? I want to pick your brain about some copy stuff.”
I was like, “Yeah, it’s 500 bucks an hour.” He said “Okay, where do I send the money?” Wow, this guy’s going to pay me 500 bucks to talk on the phone? This is awesome, I was like, “Send it here.” Then he jokes that I rescheduled the call like three times because I went and partied too much the night before, three times in a row.
[0:26:18.1] RN: Yeah.
[0:26:18.6] CC: I looked up our old Facebook conversation, that actually did happen. But only twice. I get on the phone with this guy and he – to make the long story short, had a wealth of information as a guru. So he had to had Crohn’s disease which is a very tough to get over, intestinal disorder and he had beat it and he had a book on how to live with Crohn’s and he had a workout program.
Because he had gone from weight 90 pounds at 19 years old to getting ripped and owning a gym. Then he had a dating ebook because he wasn’t getting any girls when he was dealing with the Crohn’s thing and he had to figure all this out.
He had a dating ebook called Zero Rejection Dating that I thought was good or better than Double Your Dating.
[0:27:01.8] RN: Really?
[0:27:03.3] CC: We just partnered together with my two brothers who were experts then at the traffic game and we started making our own information products.
[0:27:14.5] RN: That’s cool. That was kind of the genesis of Golden Hippo Media?
[0:27:19.2] CC: Yeah, Golden Hippo started out selling information products and we made a lot of our own, then we started partnering with other gurus. Mark Manson is the most well-known now since his book which is amazing, by the way, it’s called, The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A Fuck.
Everyone should read it, just came out but back in the day, he was very unknown and we made a confidence program with him.
[0:27:41.9] RN: I had no idea.
[0:27:43.1] CC: Yeah, it didn’t sell very well thought, I wrote the copy, it tanked and that was a kind of a big – I don’t know what the word is but it told us that hey, this is like – we’re not very good at this publisher model with other people’s information courses or at least we didn’t want to keep going and figuring out.
Of course, now, companies like Udemy and Creative Live, figured that out.
[0:28:09.2] RN: Cracked the code, yeah.
[0:28:11.4] CC: Billions of dollars. We couldn’t, however, we were quite successful at selling our own products under Josh’s name. We had built a big list of men and it was like men’s advice programs and then eventually we started getting into nutritional supplements.
Josh and my brother Mark were really into nutritional supplements so we started figuring out how to make our own. That was very less trial and error at the front with a lot of error, we got burn by several different labs, you know.
Lost a lot of money at first but eventually figured out how to make really high-quality supplements consistently, which is tough you know? That’s really how we got our – started Golden Hippo.
[0:29:01.7] RN: What was the first physical product you guys sold?
[0:29:04.2] CC: The first physical product was a – there was like a men’s vitality, like – my brother Kurt was going into this men’s forums and he realized that all of these older men were taking the same five herbs to kind of like keeps their sex drive alive.
They swore that these five worked and he’s like, why don’t we just design a supplement with all five of these in one? We did. I actually – when they came to me, I was like, “I don’t know guys, it sounds like it’s placebo effect.”
“I don’t want to write copy for something that I don’t personally believe in” and they’re like, “No, we’re doing this so you’re either in or out.” I was like, “Shit. Alright.” This is like tough times you know? This is like climbing out of recession still a little bit too.
I was like, “Okay, I guess I’ll write the thing,” but you know I started kind of like looking for other career opportunity and stuff like for real. I was talking to different people, about going to write copy for them.
[0:30:15.4] RN: Like as an employee?
[0:30:16.7] CC: Yeah, our partner, you know. Trying to figure something up. By this time, I had a lot of copywriting experience and we put those out and it sold well and we had a thousand bottles first order. Then okay, those sold well, let’s order 10,000 bottles.
We went and this time, we started getting pricing from different labs like trying to get a deal, you know? We found one that gave us a good deal and so we had them made and the bottles looked exactly the same.
We sent them out and the customers started writing back. “What is this shit? What do you mean? It’s the same thing, you know? It doesn’t work anymore.” Then we realized that we took a bottle, and we gave it to one of the companies, that does third party testing. They’re like, “These ingredients aren’t actually in there.”
[0:31:14.6] RN: No way.
[0:31:15.6] CC: “You guys got ripped off by the lab.” They totally – the lab screwed us. That taught me a couple of things, it taught me one, that these labs will screw you, you need a third party test and like all my work with reputable labs and two, that shit actually worked.
It wasn’t placebo effect like the guys were actually really feeling something.
[0:31:33.7] RN: That’s crazy, people were – customers reaching out saying this doesn’t work anymore. That’s nuts.
[0:31:38.1] CC: Yeah. Then I brought, I was like, damn, I started taking this stuff myself and I remember, I was going to Australia with a couple of buddies for New Year’s Eve trip. I was like, guys, we got to take this stuff every morning.
This is like the fucking man power stuff, you know? We just started taking it like every morning and then after that trip, two weeks later, both friends independently wrote me an email and they’re like, “Hey Craig, you got any more of that stuff?”
[0:32:00.4] RN: That’s awesome.
[0:32:02.4] CC: Yeah so that was funny but that was the starter. We never really wanted to stay in that niche because we knew it was small and we knew there was bigger things out there and my brother Mark had started taking probiotics and was having good results with them and that ended up being our next thing.
[0:32:22.3] RN: Got it and so you’ve done probiotics, the men’s vitality, skin care with Beverly Hills MD, what other verticals are you guys in?
[0:32:29.8] CC: So those early days was very much throwing things at the wall and seeing what was going to stick you know?
[0:32:39.4] RN: We’re you selling mostly with that? You had a pretty big list for men, right? So that’s the focus.
[0:32:46.5] CC: Yeah, so we were doing a lot of warm list type stuff which is much easier to sell than cold traffic as people know but yeah, it’s funny that I hire a lot of copywriters. They were like, “Oh I have to write this sales letter that is converting” you know?
[0:33:05.4] RN: To warm traffic?
[0:33:06.2] CC: It’s 5% or whatever and you find out that yeah, it’s all to a warm list because they don’t understand the difference that getting a new customer in the door for the first time is many times harder than selling someone that is already on your list. So yeah back in those days we were very much just experimenting and trying to figure something out and once we were able to do this first supplement, got burned, lost thousands of dollars with that first lab.
And then the funny thing about that just a little side note but it never really made sense to go to court because then you just pay the lawyers more money. So everyone just gets screwed just like –
[0:33:49.4] RN: Was that the biggest failure in terms of getting Golden Hippo going? How much money was that? That’s probably what, 30, 40, 50 grand? 13,000 bottles.
[0:33:57.7] CC: So that one stung a lot. We later had one that was a seven-figure dispute with the lab that I’ll bring that back up in a second and tell you that one. So we’re in this as an experimental phase and then we realized that we had a nice platform for creating these nutritional products and bringing them out to a lot of people. We know we could make a lot of impact if we got a great product that was mass market, not so much like men’s sex drive.
It was something that would help everybody and my brother Mark had started taking these probiotics and having good results with them and I started taking them and I had a big change. I was having bad digestion and I was on the shitter like five times a day. I thought I had Crohn's disease. I was like, “Josh do I have Crohn’s disease?” he’s like, “You don’t have Crohn’s but you’re fucked up man,” so I started taking up probiotics.
I got more regularity and I was all about these probiotics. I started studying why they worked and it’s just fascinating how much bad shit the food companies put in their food to getting you to eat more of the foods and all of those screw up your digestion and probiotics can really help balance that out. So we put our heads together and we’re like, “Okay let’s create a mainstream opportunity. We have a platform, let’s create a great brand and let’s try to be the Red Bull of probiotics.”
Let’s get this probiotic thing out there and make that our thing and that’s what we did and we did and we created a probiotic brand. It was called Keybiotics. It’s still around today and still sells very well and use the marketing and the business building strategies that we discovered and perfected through our information products with this probiotic supplement. It did extremely well and then that was when we got into a big dispute.
So the orders were coming in super-hot and we had to third party test everything now. You never mess around without getting third party testing and so we got into a big shipment, it was a million dollar shipment and we have them tested and they didn’t check out on the content of what’s called the colony forming units of probiotics. We have a bottle claim right there that said “37 billion CFU’s per capsule” and I don’t remember what these checked out but it wasn’t 37 billion.
So we couldn’t sell these things and then the lab is like, “Well you put them in the wrong conditions. You must have had them in this truck outside in the sun.” And we’re like, “That was your truck” and it was just one of those things you know? And that was crazy, I mean that could have put us out of business and we started the legal process and we were in like probably 50 grand in legal fees. In the meantime we had found another lab to source the probiotics that was doing nice overage for us.
So what overage means is they’d come and test out like 45 to 50 billion CFU’s per capsule and you have to do that when you are selling probiotics because you want someone to be able to take them off their own shelf in their house for a year and probiotics will slowly die because they do expire overtime.
But anyway, that’s all technical stuff with the supplements. But then we were deep in legal fees and the lab knew that they were wrong and then they finally agreed to.
Once they saw that we were lawyered up, agreed to replace the order at some sort of discount deal that we worked out. So I mean we still lost.
[0:37:44.5] RN: Still ate a lot of money.
[0:37:45.7] CC: Yeah we still ate a six figured sum but we didn’t go out of business.
[0:37:48.9] RN: Right, what’s the most difficult part of the business today? What are your guys biggest struggles?
[0:37:55.0] CC: You know it is every evolving. So now we have the platform model where we are able to partner some of the world’s best doctors and bring their innovative ideas out into the world in forms of products, in the nutrition and skin care space. So the challenge used to be finding great partners. Now we’re in the fore ship position where doctors come to us and we get to pick and choose who we feel has the most innovative products to work with.
I would say that one of the biggest struggles right now is there’s a lot of folks in our world in the supplement space that are not doing right by their customers, as well as skin care. You’ll see a lot of them doing like the free trials. Where it’s like “Pay us through 3.95 shipping and we’ll give you a free bottle of the supplement which was on the Ellen Show last night,” which never actually happened and then they bill someone’s credit card forever.
And then the supplement is total bullshit also and these folks just ruined it for everybody. One, they give the customer a bad taste in their mouth so the customers don’t want to buy a nutrition product and end up burned and they start thinking, even the legit product. The scammers are sharp you know? They can make them look good. Then the advertising networks don’t want to risk having their customers get ripped off.
So MSN recently has stopped allowing skin care because so many scammers were doing, they were getting away with these free trial things that they’re just like, “We just need to stop skin care for now because too many of our MSN users are getting scammed and that takes everybody out,” you know? We have an amazing skin care brand called Beverly Hills MD with two of the top cosmetic surgeons in Beverly Hills that we worked our butts off to formulate these best in the ass products that people love.
I mean if you Google the reviews of Beverly Hills MD, they’re like amazing products and we got these networks who are like, “Hey, we’re a legit company. These are our products, they’re doctor formulated, do a test order. Try the products yourself. Go look at all of our reviews, if you want to interview our customers, whatever you want this is our stuff. We’re really proud of our stuff.” They’re like, “Sorry we don’t take skin care. It’s not you it’s just…” you know? So that’s been a real challenge lately.
[0:40:30.4] RN: What do you guys have coming up that you are excited about? Any new products in the pipeline?
[0:40:34.8] CC: Well something that we just did that we are really excited about was we just helped one of our doctors with a launch of his book. So we’re partners with a doctor whose name is Steven Gundry and he is an acclaimed heart surgeon, who’s done more heart surgeries with infants than anyone else in the world. He has an inventor of a device that’s used 90% of all heart surgeries. He’s a badass heart surgeon and then he resigned from Chairman of Loma Linda University Heart Surgery Program.
To practice restorative medicine which is healing people through nutrition. So he just released a book called The Plant Paradox that we were really excited and honored to help him get out into the world. The Plant Paradox is all of his strategies for better diet around longevity and healing your issues. So you don’t end up on the operating table for heart surgery. So we got our team together and helped them with the marketing efforts with that.
And we were able to get him on Octagon which was the table in the middle of Barnes & Noble and it debuted at number two in the New York Times bestseller list. That was super exciting and that also let us know that we’ve got some chops now when it comes to getting books out into public and getting people to take a –
[0:41:57.2] RN: So you guys were actually doing ads for the books or no?
[0:42:00.9] CC: I don’t want to get into our secret sauce for the books. We were doing a lot of stuff. It was really exciting because we were able to do all sorts of innovative things and then figure things out. It is a very different model because the book sales go through Amazon and Barnes & Nobles. So they are not coming through our own method. But yeah, we did some interesting stuff and now we have the chops that actually just after the bestseller list came out, I wrote our doctors at Beverly Hills MD.
I’m like, “Hey guys, you guys should come out with a book because of the step up. We can help get your knowledge in the hands of a lot of people.” I know you’ve seen our products online and I don’t know if you’ve seen the doctors but when I first met the guy, I wasn’t like, “Let’s go to business.” I was like, “Dude tell me what you do to take care of your skin man because you’re 40 something years old and you look like you’re 22. I want to know.”
He told me his skin care routine and his tips and things like that and so I’m excited to get there. Yeah, I am really excited to help them get a book out in the world too and now we know how to do that. So that’s been fun. Yeah just growing the team also. I still do a lot of the copyrighting myself, however I am fortunate that we have gotten what I think is the best team of young writers in the world and I get to work with these guys every day.
Now I’m like their Evan Pagan. I personally mentor these guys. Yeah, I tell them when their copy sucks and I tell them what is good. We just have a really tight knit group where we’re doing a lot of sharing and helping make the biggest impact with these products that we really believe in so –
[0:43:41.5] RN: How big is the team?
[0:43:42.3] CC: The copyrighting team is right around 20 people. You always have a lot of churn with the copyrighting team because some people come in and find out it is not for them but yeah, we’ve got some guys that have been with us for a while. I just love it because they’re making great money and they’re learning. You cannot get this education anywhere and that’s was the biggest blessing in my business life was getting hire by Evan and getting to work under him and with an exciting team for five years.
You know you can’t get that in college man. I learned so much. I got a letter from one of our employees recently and he was just thanking me for putting this educational environment together. That meant so much to me because that was what I had with Evan and that’s what we strive to do is to make this world class training. So if someone comes through and ends up working at Golden Hippo and they just absorb the knowledge that’s in the room.
I mean they’re going to walk out of there knowing things that no else in the world knows about marketing and copyrighting and positioning and branding. They will be able to write their own way the rest of their life.
[0:44:55.7] RN: I think that’s an interesting point that a lot of people don’t think about is if you are interested in getting into business, often times the best route is going to work for somebody that a smaller team that you have direct access to the founder or the president or the CEO because then you have direct access. You are surrounded with a lot of people doing cool things and you’re in a startup environment.
[0:45:20.3] CC: Totally man and I see a lot of folks in the marketing space, trying to learn on their own and at home and around their other job and I think that’s awesome. I don’t want to discredit anyone trying to learn because that is freaking rad that people are getting out of their rat race mode and getting into learning mode. But if you can immerse yourself into an environment where it’s what you do and you’re getting paid to do it, it’s completely a priceless experience that’s going to give you the best education.
I see a lot of folks trying to figure this out on their own and it’s just a much slower process. When you’re immersed in an environment and you can do that, you’re in hyper growth mode. Even if it doesn’t feel like, you are learning so much of a higher pace. I see all of these in the copyrighting forum I see people that are coming up that are doing and reading the books and handwriting the letters and the traditional things that people do from copyrighting. I’m sorry, no one is getting as good as the guys that are at Golden Hippo.
[0:46:21.1] RN: Yeah, you’re doing it.
[0:46:23.5] CC: Yeah the same thing is true at Evan Pagan’s company now and the same thing as now when you look at the real greats from the generation before us, like David Doiche, Gary Bencivenga or Clayton Makepeace. Actually I am not a 100% sure about Clayton but I know David Doiche and Gary Bencivenga started ad agencies. They both worked at Ogilvy & Mather and went through the ad agency thing.
Gary Bencivenga worked directly under John Capels. He’s got some great books out that people interested in copywriting should get into. So yeah, it’s that immersion man and I was thinking about this. I was like, “What does it take to become the best in class in what you do?” and I came up with a four-part formula and I know this is true in copyrighting. I put this post out there in my Instagram and I wanted to know if other people in other industries felt the same way and it turned out it was.
I even had a DJ who wrote me. He’s like, “I produce music and this is the same thing that allowed me to get that.” So here’s the four part formula. It’s immersion, it’s being around that stuff fulltime and even when I was working for Evan and the company, I wasn’t listening to music in my car. I was listening to marketing programs and I was listening to audio books by Jack Trout and Hal Rise on branding and positioning and things like that. It was just immersion for three years, right?
The next thing is doing it. So Evan made me a challenge when I worked for him. He was like, “If you write 10 pages of hard hitting copy every single day and it’s quality converting stuff, I will make sure you’re making six figures a year.” I took that challenge on and that was tough for me because I was a big procrastinator at the time but I did it. It took me six months, I don’t how long it got me up to speed but it was six months. I was doing the ten pages a day of hard hitting copy and he honored his promise. He started paying me six figures a year.
[0:48:21.3] RN: That’s awesome.
[0:48:21.9] CC: So immersion, doing it every day or at least five days a week is how often I was doing it, right? Mentorship, you need someone to like tell you when you’re doing something right and when you are doing something wrong and that can’t come from a book. It’s got to be someone reading your copy or with my DJ friend, he said someone listening to his music and being like, “Hey maybe you should consider trying this.” Then you blend things together or something like that, you know?
So that’s mentorship, right? So those are the three things and then, time. Time doing that shit but my theory is that if you do one, two and three, if you immerse yourself, if you do the damn work at least five days a week and if you have the right mentor then all you need to do is put in the time and you’re guaranteed to become world class. How much is that time going to be? It’s going to be different for different people but it’s going to happen.
So, I went through different evolutions in my writing. It took me six months to get to the point where I could write really strong email copy and that email copy could be sent out to a warm list which we know is the easiest way to sell and bring in a good amount of sales. It was about three months or so before I wrote something that Evan would even mail out. My first copy sucked and then it took me a few more years to be able to write longer form sales letter stuff and it probably took me five years to be able to write captivating openings to sales letters, which is the hardest part.
It is getting that opening in a long piece and now I’ve been fortunate to write a lot of sales letters that I think have been some of the biggest but I still bomb also. So I still have my mentors and peers that I sent copy over to and I’m like, “Hey man this bombed. Don’t tell anyone but…” No, I’m totally owning up to the fact that some of my shit tanks still to the end of this day but some of them go on and are huge eight figured successes so.
[0:50:27.0] RN: Why do some still or why do some letters still tank? Is it just you’ll never know what the response is going to be, so you try different things? What is it?
[0:50:36.3] CC: Yeah, everything tanks for the same reason. It’s because you are not connecting with your prospect, so what does that mean? Well maybe you’ve got two inside of your head and just started talking about something that was too technical or maybe it is something like you cared about that the prospect doesn’t care about. Or maybe you just lost them by talking about benefits that they don’t really care about or maybe you intro wasn’t interesting to them.
Maybe it wasn’t unique, maybe it wasn’t a unique solution for their problem. Or maybe you forgot that they had a problem at all and you’re just like talking out your ass about like how great your product is, but not really connecting the dots between what it’s going to do for them so.
[0:51:16.8] RN: I feel like that’s the most difficult part about it is that there are so many different variables. You know what I mean between there’s different parts of the letter like is it the intro, is it this, is it this? With the affiliate stuff you just put an ad up, it’s either the ad is not working instead of the little three by 250.
[0:51:33.4] CC: Yeah and you can test word by word, yeah. It’s tough man that’s why you need a mentor who’s done it because the split test can’t tell you. If you are doing long form stuff there’s too much to test and you could never know why your letter is tanking, you know? Sometimes there’s general stuff where you just know. I don’t know if you are going to talk about that letter that you had wrote for you that you don’t like.
[0:52:00.0] RN: You can. Yeah what he’s referring to is we paid 50 grand for a sales letter that we tested and it just didn’t convert. I sent it out to Craig and he was like, “Oh dude.”
[0:52:16.0] CC: I mean I remember I looked at it. You sent it to me and I think you were expecting me to find some high-level problem it had in it, right?
[0:52:28.6] RN: Just tell me what is wrong with it so I can go fix it, yeah.
[0:52:30.7] CC: And I was like, “Uh dude everything that’s wrong with this letter was written and tested advertising methods by John Capels in 1960.” It’s not rocket science why this thing isn’t working you know? But I’ve written letters recently that I’ll go back and look at a year later. So let’s say somebody wrote it in 2015 and I’ll read it and I’ll be like, “You know what? The reason this tanked is in tested advertising methods were written in 1970’s.”
It’s so obvious later so you can be a really strong writer and still just get caught up in your own head and write something that tanks and violate basic principles in marketing and never know. That’s part of the struggle of being a writer is that you’re going to have your bombs and sometimes you’re hot and sometimes you’re not. When I wrote the promotion for that Keybiotics probiotics supplement which was the biggest one I had written at the time and I think one of the biggest on the internet.
It was doing 10 million a month in sales, I was way up on my high horse. I was like, “Shit this is the biggest sales letter ever, this is so great like I’ve crossed the path,” you know? I was feeling like I was one of the Beetles or some shit. Like the Beetles have the saying, someone asked them like, “Are you guys materialistic?” and they were like, “Hell yeah! When we write down a song, we go let’s write ourselves a new swimming pool.” So that was George Harrison or something.
But anyway, I was like, “Oh man I could so this” so the next thing I set down to write was something for our Beverly Hills MD brand and I spent a month writing this and it was this unique sales letter that’s a different format anyone has ever seen before. We put it up and waiting for the results to come in and in the meantime, I was walking around with a little more –
[0:54:38.9] RN: Chest out.
[0:54:40.1] CC: Chest out, you know then I go in and I’m like, “Oh how did that copy do guys?” and they’re like, “You know what? The results are it’s not really converting. Not a lot of sales.” I’m like, “Okay, where did the media buyer fuck this up? What link is broken? What banner were you using here? Because it is not the copy. That copy is great.” So then they test different banners, they make sure all the links were working and it’s still tanking.
And I’m like, “Oh the customer is wrong,” but you know of course that’s never true. So yeah, the next thing I wrote tanked and –
[0:55:17.5] RN: Brought you back to earth a little bit?
[0:55:19.6] CC: Yeah and some of the things that tanked you can fix if you get some traction but this one –
[0:55:27.0] RN: Had to totally wipe it?
[0:55:29.0] CC: Had to totally wipe it and funny because the product was outstanding and I did so many rewrites of that letter trying to make it work and finally just gave up and then later, swallowed the pride and brought it an expert outside writer to try to fix it which is not something we did normally do at Golden Hippo.
We normally write this stuff internally but we brought in David Doiche to give it a rewrite and did a deal with him and his version is converting better than mine was. We think it could be a success. It’s not all the way there yet but I hope it does, because it’s an amazing product.
[0:56:11.7] RN: Totally.
[0:56:13.9] CC: It’s an acne product, actually the user group with it.
[0:56:17.5] RN: Cool.
[0:56:17.6] CC: The results we had were outstanding. We know that’s a big market for proactive, right? Yeah, hopefully that will -
[0:56:26.3] RN: So being the Fail On podcast, the whole idea is to get people to stretch the comfort zone, do the things that are a little uncomfortable to grow. What’s a challenge that you could lay out for the listener or for us?
[0:56:36.3] CC: That’s a great question and I did a post on my birthday, a year ago. I talked about the power of the 60 day challenge. There was a time when I was also up on my high horse, you know, thinking I was hot shit and was doing a little too much drinking and partying.
It all caught up to me when I got my ass kicked and thrown in the back of a car in the Ukraine by four thugs and they were taking me somewhere I don’t know where the fuck they were taking me. I was in the back of the car with a fucking big Russian dude on each side and two in the front seat.
I was scared shitless and I somehow talked my way out of it to get them to let me go with just taking my phone and my cash.
[0:57:27.7] RN: Get all your fingers or your toes.
[0:57:30.6] CC: Yeah, all my fingers, the anus was intact.
[0:57:33.7] RN: The important things.
[0:57:34.8] CC: You know, sad to say, I was so drunk. I don’t even remember what the conversation was. I realized that I had a serious drinking problem. I talked to a friend of mine, his name is Alex Almond, he’s someone I really respect and he’s got men’s advice programs actually too.
I said, “I don’t know what to do here.” He’s like “Well, I’m glad you are finally realizing this because you know, I’m never one to be your dad but like, we’ve all known you’ve had a binge drinking problem for a long time but no one’s going to…” So I’m like, “Shit, am I an alcoholic? Should I stop?” And he’s like, “Well, see if you can stop for 60 days.”
“If you can’t stop drinking for 60 days, then you might have some serious issues that might require you to seek some AA or some professional level of help. But see if you can do this 60 days and then we’ll talk after that.”
“Alright, I’m going to do it.” I called two friends and I told them, I was like “Hey,” actually they were both named Shawn. Shawn Royster and Shawn Stevenson. I was like, “I’m doing 60 days of no alcohol and finally trying to get my binge drinking problem under control.”
“I have a problem, I’m trying to fix it.” I did the 60 days and it was a fucking bitch but the theme of my post that is still up. It’s pinned on my Facebook fan page if someone wants to read it. I was talking about the power of the 60-day challenge. A lot of people do like a 30-day cleanse or 30 days no alcohol. That’s good too but I found that – I did a 30 day no alcohol like after – like a couple of years after I did the 60 days.
The 30 day no alcohol. You can see the light at the end of the tunnel so you start counting, you’re like, “Only 20 more days of this stuff, you know? Only 10 more days so I can go get fucking tanked again.”
But with the 60 days, it’s such a long period of time, the eight weeks. It forces you to make permanent change because you know that it’s like too far in advance to count. “Shit, I actually have to figure out how to live this way.”
You know, there’s no countdown, ripping the fucking days off the calendar, you know? 58 days doesn’t sound short you know? So long, like on day three, you’re like “Fuck, I got 57 more days?”
You actually have to learn to adapt and you learn strategies. You know, I was dating at the time, I’d be like, “Hey, do you want to go have a drink?” And girl would say, “Well you don’t drink.” You got to know what to do in those situations, you know? Do you have club soda?
Do you find a different date or something like that, you know? If it’s 30 days, you’d be like, yeah, I’ll be back drinking with you soon, you know? With 60 days and you meet them, in week one, you got to figure out something to do for the rest of that.
It forces you to make that lifestyle change and I put this challenge to people, I say, pick the thing you want to change about yourself and give yourself a 60 day challenge. If that’s starting to work out, don’t do like a 30 day because then you’ll just fall off the track, do 60 days and commit to that.
Then, it’s so much more likely to become a permanent lifestyle change. I don’t think it’s like double, I think it’s probably like 10 times more likely to become that.
[1:00:53.5] RN: Love it man.
[1:00:54.8] CC: Yeah. I would say yeah, my challenge to the readers is pick something, it doesn’t have to be alcohol, it could be –
[1:01:01.0] RN: Like you said, working out, it could be.
[1:01:03.5] CC: Nutrition, you know, kicking the fried foods or the gluten or whatever it is, you know? It could be porn, it could be drugs, it could be, I mean, you know, we got all kinds of ways that we’re fucked up that don’t we want to talk about.
What everyone’s got a few, don’t feel bad. Yeah, give yourself 60 days to conquer it and I think you’ll find some real lasting change.
[1:01:27.1] RN: Love it. Thanks dude. Thanks for joining me.
[1:01:29.7] CC: This has been a lot of fun.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[1:01:33.0] RN: Alright, you can find Craig @craigclemens on Twitter and for that spelling and all the links and resources Craig and I discussed, including more information on his businesses, it can all be found at the page we created especially for this episode, that will be at failon.com/033. Next week, we are sitting down with James Wanrick from being an anchor on Sports Center for ESPN with no experience by the way, it’s a crazy story.
He’s also the author of Insider Journalism Secrets, he sold millions online and cofounded an international agency, Croft Media. Just a crazy diverse background, really interesting guy but he’ll be sharing his first entrepreneurial experience performing interviews with Hollywood stars.
How he landed a job of being an anchor for Sports Center, like I mentioned with no experience and after bombing the first audition and we go through a lot more, don’t miss it, it’s a good one.
And if the podcast is providing value to your life, please email me at email@example.com and let me know what your biggest takeaway from this episode was with Craig. I’m sure he’d love to hear it as well.
And as I continue to build out fail on with a goal of helping employees become entrepreneurs, to create absolute freedom. I’d be really grateful for a couple of things that might seem small but they actually matter so much.
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[1:03:11.1] ANNOUNCER: That’s all for this episode of The Fail On Podcast. For more resources, show notes and action items to help you find success in your failures, sign up for our mailing list at failon.com.
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